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Anna David: Playboy, Cocaine & Writing A NY Times Best Seller

My special guest is Anna David. She is a New York Times bestselling author, journalist, podcaster, speaker and publisher.

This show is such a doozy. It was incredibly fascinating to do the research and to be part of this show. In it, we talk about Sex & 2 Cities and being a party girl. We also talk about addiction to drugs, how to overcome that and how you can successfully put out a book even if you’re not a great writer.

This is a variety show and one that you will find very fascinating. If you're looking for a little entertainment along with some hardcore nuggets in the area of entrepreneurship, writing and having a book, you are going to love this show.

Dustin
Anna, your story is a Hollywood movie. Let's start in that hazy period of 1998 to 2000. You’ve been living the writer's lifestyle, bouncing around the industry, having written for Entertainment Weekly, People and way out in the left field, at least to me, Parenting Magazine. During this time, you've said to use your words, a shitload of cocaine. Take us back to this point in your life. What was going on?
Anna
It was a very dark period and at the time I thought I was “having fun.” I'm not exactly sure how I thought holding up by myself with only cats and cocaine for company was fun, but that's how I told myself. I had been this fun party girl and that's where the disease of alcoholism took me. It was nothing fun, nothing party. I was convinced that my neighbors were spying on me with binoculars. It was a little crazy. I wanted nothing to do with sobriety recovery. Most active addicts don't. It sounds like hell on earth. I thought, “I can't live without cocaine and I can't live with it. What am I going to do?” I would hope not to wake up. I took a lot of Ambien then and I would wake up and be so depressed. I didn't even know I was depressed anymore. I thought, “This is life.” In that space of complete desperation, I finally told the truth. I called my mom, I told her the truth and I was in rehab the following week. That was it.
Dustin
Was there any turning point or you woke up one day and you're like, “Now's the time?” Were there other points leading up to that or was it just night and day?
Anna
It's very strange because there was no “bottom.” My bottom was I believe a spiritual one. That's true for addicts and alcoholics. It can be for some people. They lose the job, they lose the family, whatever it is. I didn't have much to lose. I was unemployed and unemployable at the time. That day was no different than any other day. It was the day that I decided to tell the truth. I look at it as this was God, this was spiritual, a divine intervention of sorts.
Dustin
Were you nervous at all? Were you nervous making that call and actually pulling the so-called trigger on telling somebody?
Anna
No, weirdly I've always been what I call a chronic confessionalist. I tell everybody everything, whether they feel hearing it or not. The difference was telling my mom and telling her for this specific reason that I was done. The kind of terror I felt was almost indescribable. One of our sayings in recovery, it's in our literature is, “We live with 100 forms of fear.” That's what differentiates the alcoholic from the non-alcoholic. Everybody has fear but I think with alcoholism, your brain doesn't work correctly. That's what drives you to drink and do drugs to excess in this effort to make your brain okay. I convinced myself that I wasn't scared of anything because I jumped out of planes, I rappelled down buildings, I go on live TV and all of that. I was so scared that fear would more come up as depression because I would be repressing it. I go, “I’m not scared.” It's repressing feelings that cause depression.
Dustin
I have someone in my family personally. I know you speak a lot and you write about this as well. I want to know what the advice is for loved ones dealing with an addict. Do we support them? Do we not and go cold turkey? What do you say to family members?
Anna
It's a tough thing because it's not cookie cutter. It does depend and it's very dangerous to say, “Cut him off,” because what if that addict overdoses and dies as a result? What if that person kills himself? My recommendation is going to Al-Anon. It is a 12-step program that is for the loved ones of addicts. The reason is people will go, “What do you mean? Why do I have to go to a program? I'm not the one with the problem.” It’s more like, “No, you get to go to a place where you're going to get help. You're going to meet a ton of people who are in that same situation and you're going to realize how you actually have no control.” The quicker you realize that, the quicker the addict is actually going to bottom out and get help.
Dustin
It’s very stoic to me. I do a lot of reading in stoicism. All of us, whether we're addicts or not, we all walk around trying to believe that we're in control. What I've realized reading stoicism is when you realize that it's very freeing.
Anna
It is because I thought I had to take care of everything and when I can remember, “I can suit up and show up but really I can't. I got no control.” It's actually a relief if I can remember that.
Dustin
I want to get into some of your writing. I understand you were writing at such an early age. Where did this desire come from? Was your mother a writer or your father a writer? How did you get the writing bug so early?
Anna
My mom was an English professor who did academic writing and that was a big influence. I remember seeing her on her typewriter and thinking that was super cool. No one else in my family was a writer and it's all I ever did. I have my first rejection letter on my wall and I was ten. I was already submitting stories and this was what I did. I've always been obsessed with words in psychology, and that's what writing is.
Dustin
For someone as prolific as you and starting so young, it would be easy to say, “This girl was born to write.” What do you say to the people who say, “I can't write?”
Anna
I do not mean this to be self-aggrandizing because there are very few things I'm good at. I think you are born to write or you're not. It is an unfortunate thing. It's not something that can be taught. I majored in Creative Writing and we weren't taught anything. We did workshops, wrote stories, gave them to each other and gave notes and rewrote. That is what writing is. I have this publishing company where we write the books for people and basically, I have a team of LA Times bestselling authors. We connect with them, write, edit and publish the book. The problematic clients, the people we turned down are the ones who can't write but who think they can because it is almost impossible for us to fix something that doesn't work. Whereas, it's not hard for us to start from scratch. My biggest advice is to get someone else to do it. I get someone else to handle investing my money because I'm not an expert in it. People think writing is like, “I talk well. I can write.” It's actually very different.
Dustin
For my do-it-yourselfers out there, I want to ask this question. Do you get writer's block?
Anna
No. Philosophically, I'm opposed to it because the bricklayer doesn't get to be, “I'm not inspired to lay bricks today. I don't know why I'm blocked.” If this is your job, you don't have that luxury. I think that writer's block is perfectionism turned on its head because it's what Brenè Brown calls the shitty first draft. I'm a good writer because I know the things I write at the beginning sucks. I know that writing is rewriting. I know I'm going to get in there and fix it. What about you? Do you write your own books? Tell me the truth.
Dustin
I've done both.
Anna
Do you think you're a natural writer? No judgment. Don't think that I said you weren't.
Dustin
No.
Anna
You're not and you know it. Can I ask you the experience of doing it yourself versus having somebody else do it?
Dustin
Painful.
Anna
Both?
Dustin
No, the first one, me doing it myself, it was painful. I had to get up way early. There were deadlines but then doing it with somebody else, it was a whole lot easier because they interviewed me.
Anna
It is such a relief. Everybody wants to think of themselves as a writer. Hats off to you for going, “No, I'm not.”
Dustin
I’ve got to ask the piece for Playboy, Sex & 2 Cities. As a writer, in your younger years, before doing what you're doing this business of helping entrepreneurs write books, was this your first big break in writing completely?
Anna
Yes. You nailed it. Playboy was my break and it was because I was writing entertainment journalism. Doing the People, Premiere, and Entertainment Weekly, I liked it. I thought that's what I was going to do. Actually, my boss at Premiere was this writer, Amy Sohn. She was then the sex columnist for New York Magazine. She has reached out to me and asked if I know an LA-based writer who I think would do a story where they trade dating lives for a week with her. He's like, “I thought of you.” I'm like, “I've never done anything like that. I've never even written first person.” He said, “If you want to do it, do it.” It was this girl who gave me my break. She pitched it to Playboy. They said yes. Next thing I knew, I was living in her apartment for a week, going out with men she'd sent me.
Dustin
Were you a little nervous about doing that and having a piece in Playboy?
Anna
No, I'm not nervous about many things I should be nervous about. I'm someone who jumps first and asks the questions later, which has been my greatest and worst quality. What happened with that piece is they ended up shooting us, which was something I wasn't scared of. We're not naked but we're close. They loved the photos. It was this huge layout in this huge story and there was suddenly this bidding war over the rights to it, which was not something I had ever experienced. It was made into a reality show pilot that wasn't picked up. That story accidentally became a very big deal and that launched this whole bizarre career for me as a sexpert.
Dustin
You had been writing for quite some time. Did you know this was the type of piece or that this was going to catch fire or had the potential to?
Anna
I thought other things I did would be big and I've certainly thought other things since and no, I didn't at all. I naively thought, “This will just keep happening.” It did launch this whole crazy thing. Suddenly, people are reaching out and saying, “You write for Playboy, you must know a lot about sex.” I'm like, “Did you say you'd pay me to come on TV and talk about that?” “Sure. I know.” That was a long career that I was never entirely comfortable in mostly because I don't know that much about sex. I feel they gave this idea about me that wasn't accurate. I'll talk about anything. I'm a total oversharer but it didn't feel like me. Once I had these contacts on television, TV producers, I basically transitioned myself. I said, “No, I won't come on and talk about that, but if you want me to come on and talk about addiction recovery, I'll do that.”
Dustin
I want to talk about the book and get into your process on what it looks like to help someone write a book. Your first book, Party Girl, tell us what it was about. What's the story about how it came to be? Were you riding that wave of this article and being on TV?
Anna
No, and that's a good question. It all very much evolved. When that article came out, I started to get some other breaks. I published A Modern Lab in the New York Times, which was bigger than writing a book. That was so awesome. What happened is I was in a friend's office, he was a magazine editor and he had on his shelf a book written by someone I know. I said to myself, “I'm smarter than that girl. If she can do that, I can too. It can't be that hard.” It's a horrible thing to admit, but it's true. That day, I went home and I started writing a book and I was like, “My own story would be a good idea,” because my story was I had been this party girl, then I got sober and I was given a column called Party Girl by that guy who also introduced me to Amy Sohn. I thought it was hilarious that I suddenly have this column where I was supposedly out partying with celebrities when actually I was sober, go into lots of AA meetings and hanging out with my cats and all my new sober friends. I thought, “That's a good idea for a book.” I fictionalized it and that's the story of the book.
Dustin
This is a concept of how you're taking an idea, parlaying it into a story, fictionalizing it, pitching and getting a book deal. What advice do you have for folks on getting a book deal? Are advances still a thing and do you even believe in going that route?
Anna
I 1,000% do not believe in that route. For novels, you actually have to finish the book. For non-fiction, you have to write a proposal. In 2005, when I sold Party Girl, it was a totally different market. I also had ten years of high-profile magazine stories. I actually had agents coming to me and saying, “Can I represent you?” That is why I had a so-called beginner's luck with my book. I had ten years of non-beginning and I was able to sell six more traditionally. I'm very open about money. My book deals went from $50,000 for Party Girl to $2,000 for my last book. I said, “I'm done with this.” It also takes around two years to go from book sale to book coming out, at the longest. It can happen faster and there's no advantage whatsoever at all that I can see. That's how I transitioned.
I was such a snob about self-publishing. I was like, “That's just for losers and wannabes.” I realized, “No, that's actually for the smart people,” because I looked around, I saw my friends who had gone the traditional publishing route who'd been published by the big five. I saw that they were looking for teaching jobs, working at tabloids and doing whatever they could to pay the rent. I looked at people like James Altucher who were becoming rich off of self-published books. I was like, “What am I doing here?” That's why I started my company. My company is for the people who are very successful in some other avenue, not writing, who want the credibility of a book. You probably agree with me, you need a book if you have a business. You need that credibility.
Dustin
You’ve got to see the inside of a New York Times bestseller. Should people be trying, especially if they're an entrepreneur or they're coming out with their first book? Everyone has that grand ambition. They want to get that trophy, that star. Is this the wrong mindset to have with your first book?
Anna
1,000% and I have watched so many writer friends. They get a book deal, the book is coming out and all they care about is the New York Times list, and they're disappointed. Meanwhile, they're on the Today Show. They are getting accolades, they're getting speaking gigs and all they feel is a failure because they didn't make the Times list. It's ludicrous. It is so fricking hard to make the New York Times bestseller list. Why have it? You've already had a dream come true. Why have that as the mark of success? It drives me crazy. The book that hit the list for me, I don't even know how many copies it sold. It's a completely mysterious business. If you're self-publishing, you’d know how many copies you sold. If you're going traditional, you have no idea. Nobody tells you.
Dustin
It's one thing to write a book, as I've come to find out, and you know from this world, it's another thing to go out there and market it. Will you shed a little light on it because everyone puts it in like the same package?
Anna
I would say part two is harder, even if you're writing yourself. I actually have a course called Audience Building for Writers because so many traditional and self-published writers don't understand that's a job unto itself. The game has changed a lot in this area too. Back when I was doing it, if you got on the Today Show and in People Magazine in the same week, you were guaranteed a best seller. Who do you know gets their book recommendations from People Magazine? It's outrageous. Social media matters a lot but I also think if you assume, “I've got 50,000 Instagram followers, it's going to do really well.” You can't assume that either. There's that Kevin Kelly piece, 1,000 True Fans. This idea is that you don't need fans, you need true fans. True fans are people that will do anything for you. They will buy every book and will drive to San Diego to see you read. It's hard to acquire a true fan. That's also why I teach people how to do that. It's a bunch of things. It's newsletter lists, giving them things, social media and having an influencer, having Tim Ferriss’ support, it's podcasts. It's a steady stream that comes from all different avenues.
Dustin
The book writing process is one thing and we talked about marketing. How can one leverage a book to create a business or to bring them clients and customers? What is that strategy?
Anna
Speaking is the easiest evolution. I think people make a mistake if they assume, “I have this book out so now everybody's going to be pounding down my door.” No, you have to keep making it happen. I went and pitched a bunch of agents, I did three TEDx Talks because I pitched myself. Nobody else did that. It's something that you've got to get out there and say, “I have this bestselling book.” Another thing that we help clients with this is making it an Amazon bestseller. That's the thing about obsessing over the New York Times list. Once you're a bestselling author, you're a bestselling author and people usually don't ask, “Do you mean Amazon or do you mean the New York Times?” Once you've got a bestselling book, get out there and get yourself speaking gigs. If you've been smart about marketing this book, you have an email list so you can start creating courses. You can start creating coaching programs, masterminds, and hosting retreats and events. It is up to you to go and build that.
Dustin
I'm so glad you mentioned speaking because it's one thing to write, but it's another thing to get up there and speak. You already said you're a fearless type of gal, meaning you jump in. Was public speaking any different for you?
Anna
No, that does not scare me. Also, the best training for public speaking is twelve-step programs because you get in there and you're sharing in front of a hundred people. I'm sober eighteen years. You get asked to speak at meetings with 300 people. That is amazing and that's where you learn. You were sharing to save our lives, but you inevitably learn. What do people respond to? What makes them laugh, what moves them, what makes them cry? People go to Toastmasters. I'm like, “Screw Toastmasters, go to AA.” Of course, you're not going to go to AA unless you need it. That's where my training came from. I was in Northern California. I was speaking at a graduation for a Drug Court, which sounds very unglamorous and it was, but there were 1,000 people there. That was the biggest audience I've ever done. I was like, “This is weird. I'm not nervous.” I get nervous over silly things, sometimes one on ones with people, sometimes being around my family of origin. The big stuff doesn't scare me, but the little stuff sometimes does.
Dustin
You coined this term light hustler. What is that?
Anna
That is somebody who shares their dark in order to find their light. It's the light in the spiritual sense or if that doesn't make people comfortable, light in the funny sense. I'm a big believer in tricking people by making them think they're being entertained, making them think that they're laughing and you're trying to save them. If things aren't funny, I'm not interested. I only like writers who are funny. I like speakers who are funny. This is greatly limiting to me because there are lots of wonderful speakers and books that are very earnest and serious, but they're not my vibe. I know that from my life. It's sharing my darkest experiences that have brought me the freedom that I've been seeking and it's also helped other people. It's helped other people share their darkness to find their light. It's keeping it inside that constricts it. It’s like I was saying before about how I would get depressed because I was in fear and I didn't want to admit it to myself, admitting it to yourself is wonderful, admitting it to the world is even more freeing.
Dustin
You do this thing called The Storytelling Show. I want you to tell people what that is and my follow-up to that is. I believe I am not funny. I love to laugh. How can we be funnier?
Anna
I also think that's like writing. You either are or you are not. I love how you know exactly what you are and what you are not. That's beautiful and so useful. It's probably why you're very successful. I only use comedians and really funny writers in this show. People come out to me all the time and they're like, “I have a story. I'd love to be in your show.” What I always say is, “That's great. Send me a video of you performing a live story about recovery and I'll give it to my producer.” I don't have a producer. Most people don't have that video because I only want professionals. It's a way to get rid of people. I have had people actually do it and the two people that did that were great, and I used them. You can't be like, “I've got a great story.” I write out every story, I memorize it and I make it look like, “I’m so funny. This is off the cuff.” No, I am so prepared. That's something that I don't think people understand.
Dustin
What is the strategy? It goes to musicians. You hear that song on the radio, Pandora or whatever. They played this a million times or a thousand times when they go around tour, but yet the best ones make you feel it's their first time playing it. In that same sense, you've done all this work, you've memorized the jokes or the act or the story and yet you make people feel it's so natural and flowy. How do you do it? Is it just to rehearse it?
Anna
I think it's rehearsing and not over-rehearsing. I find it much harder with speaking gigs to do that with the comedy. I think what I do to prepare is I write it, I record myself and I listen to it three times then I try to say it. It's not overly memorized. You can play off the crowd a lot. With speaking it, you can't wing it so much. I find it harder to be natural but I do think playing off the crowd, you can incorporate them into it. Incorporate something that happened right before into it and don't be afraid to come up with jokes on the spot. Those can often land the best.
Dustin
I want to go back to the business. I forgot a question and I think it's important. In building Light Hustle Publishing where you work with folks to help them write their books and get it out to the world, what has surprised you the most about building it? Let me go back even. It's one thing to be a successful writer, to get advances and to go out there and do it, but to be in the business of that seems different to me. What has surprised you in that journey?
Anna
What has surprised me the most is what people will do with it. Darren Prince was a huge eye-opener for me because the way this happened is he came to me and he said, “I want you to write my book.” I said, “I don't write other people's books anymore.” He said, “I want you to do it.” I turned to my friend who's an LA Times bestselling author of eight books and I said, “Would you do this?” She said, “Yes.” Darren said, “I want you to publish it.” I said, “I don't know how to publish a book.” He's like, “I’ll pay you to learn. I want to be associated with you.” I thought, “This guy is ridiculous.”
He drove me so crazy during this time that we were working on it. I was like, “I'm never talking to this guy again.” The book comes out and he hustles it like nothing I've ever seen. He had to get an agent. He is an agent and I realized he's the best guy I know. He basically set me up in business. He started referring me clients. He referred me this guy who's on the Real Housewives of New Jersey. He refers me to people all the time. I think that’s what surprised me. I knew a book could take somebody far but I didn't realize it until Darren. It gave him a whole new career and he already had a very successful career.
Dustin
Who are some of the folks in your stable? That's me trying to be funny. Who are some of the authors? Who are you most excited about the works that you're underway with?
Anna
I need to point out, that was funny. Not the stable. You’re saying that was you trying to be funny because it was off the cuff. That was funny. We are working on six books that we're doing. Most of them are not by people that are famous or that you've heard of. I have a call at 3:00 with somebody who's an old friend of mine, who could very easily sell a book and wants to do it with us, but I can't talk about it until the ink is dry. We have a book that we're working on with somebody. She was on a reality show on E!. She was part of The Bling Ring, which was this group of fabulous Hollywood kids who broke into all these celebrities’ homes. Emma Watson played her in the movie and she's actually sober for eight years. She's a mom of two and has become this recovery advocate. That is an amazing story and it's called Recovering from Reality. That's a book that we're excited about. We're excited about all of them. They really vary. They have been either straight up business books or personal memoirs. We do both.
Dustin
What are you looking for in terms of a client? I imagine not everybody is the right fit for you. What is it that Light Hustle is in search of?
Anna
We want people who have stories to share. They don't have to be dark, but we want people who have been through a transition and have a real message to share that can help people. We're not interested in people who want to do self-promotion, who want to write about their business. As I said, we've definitely turned down clients who want to be told that a hundred pages they've written are completely genius. They're not going to be people we can work with. We need people who don't frankly have the time to do the writing themselves. That's our best client.
Dustin
I'm curious about the process. People are understanding and aware. Do you basically interview them? Do you put the work together and they look over it and approve it? Is that how it goes?
Anna
Yeah, I put some of my writers and as I said, they're all either bestselling authors or LA Times reporters, USC professors, high-quality writers. Sometimes they don't even meet. It is all over the phone unless they're in the same place or the client wants to fly out to meet them. They put it together. I take a look at it, then the client looks at it and usually has notes. Our favorite clients don't have notes and they just say, “This is perfect. This is great.” I have it professionally laid out. We have a team of designers. All of our book cover people have all worked at the big five. They've worked at HarperCollins, Simon and Schuster, in those places. Depending on which package and stuff they have, we do a release where we coordinate an advanced reader team and we put it up on Amazon. You might know a lot of these little backend tricks but a lot of backend stuff that I know that is designed to make the book a bestseller. It usually can launch with a bunch of reviews, top of its category lists and that's it. We can do it. With The Real Housewives guy, he wanted it right away. We pulled it off in two months. It was insane.
Dustin
That was a minimum of 150 pages?
Anna
Yeah, that one was crazy too because he didn't give it to Bravo to look at. Once it had been printed, Bravo not only had problems with a lot of the content, they had problems with the title. I had to have the book pulled, printed already, have a legal read, have it re-edited, have it laid out, have it printed and shipped to him in New Jersey two days later. He had no idea if that was impossible, but we did it.
Dustin
Any other crazy story like that? I’ve got to imagine it takes the cake in terms of the publishing that you've done with Clyde's. Anything crazier than that?
Anna
No, that was totally insane and I hope never to repeat it.
Dustin
I want to move us into WealthFit round, which essentially is my fancy name for rapid fire questions. What's been your most worthwhile investment?
Anna
My most worthwhile investment is the time that I work. I work eight hours a day and there's no greater joy for me. The investment is putting in the time rather than trying to take the short route.
Dustin
You were clear to say only eight hours a day. Do you sometimes go above that? If you're in the flow and things are great or it's eight and you're done?
Anna
Yeah, I can't work after 7:00 or I can't sleep because my brain is going. I actually have to have that cut-off point.
Dustin
What's that investment you'd rather not talk about? What's that misstep you took?
Anna
There are so many. The misstep I took was working for some incredibly abusive people, a series of them thinking that I couldn't do it on my own. I had to get a loud message. My last job was working for a company that was being run out of prison. When I refuse to write the introduction to one of the prisoners’ friends in prison’s book, they called me a plagiarist. They made that up and fired me. I was like, “I'm done. I'm going to do this on my own.” I've doubled, financially successful and I don't have to deal with crazy people.
Dustin
When life is great and grand and the business is humming along, Anna wants to treat herself to something nice. What is that guilty spending splurge?
Anna
I have several and I treat myself to them all the time. Massages every couple of days, lots of chocolates and the worst of all, sunbathing. Can you believe it? It's so wrong. I do it.
Dustin
Are we talking sunbathing on the beach or at a place?
Anna
Usually by a pool. The beaches are far from here.
Dustin
In the last three years, what have you become better at saying no to?
Anna
Anything I don't want to do. For instance, when I went to go do this speaking gig at the Drug Court, they had three days of activities for me. We're going to go to lunch. You're going to go to lunch with my wife. You're going to do this, you're going to do that and you're going to sit in court all day. I realized after dreading it, that I didn't have to do any of it. I said, “I’d actually prefer to be on my own,” and they were fine with it. I used to do a lot of things because I thought I had to.
Dustin
Any special routines or rituals you have to get in stage, flow or keep you on your game?
Anna
I meditate twice a day. That's been a big thing.
Dustin
Is that TM?
Anna
I do something called Vedic meditation, which is an offshoot of TM. It is a mantra but it's different. I don't know how it's different because I've never done TM, but that's what I do. Actually, I started recording meditations that help people write. It was so fun because I do guided meditations, too. I've been to meditation retreats. I've been doing this for so long. I bet I could do it. I looked into getting certified and it was 500 hours. I'm like, “I don't want to be a meditation teacher.” I do host retreats. I would love to lead those people in a fifteen-minute meditation writing thing. I've recorded one, put it to music and I'm going to upload it to Insight Timer.
Dustin
If you're into meditation and you're helping people with their meditations, do you ever experience being overwhelmed or have you cracked the code on that?
Anna
I don’t know that I do. I don't know what overwhelmed is. On a personal level with getting sober, I was experiencing overwhelm in terms of my addiction but no, I love chaos. I love to be busy. If I wake up and there's not a bunch of things to do, I don't know what to do. I don't know that I've experienced that.
Dustin
How do you get better? Who are your mentors?
Anna
Joe Polish. That's how I know Jamie. That man has been such a game changer for me. As I said, I had only worked for abusive men, suddenly I met this guy. I had been seeking a mentor for so long and I realized when I met Joe that my heights had been too low. I connected with him because he was interested in getting into recovery advocacy and he had me on his podcast. I had him on my podcast and he was like, “You really know what you're talking about.” We wrote a book together, the Miracle Morning for Addiction Recovery. He actually brought me into his team to help him develop something called Genius Recovery. He let me start coming to his Genius Network meetings. He had me speak alongside Tony Robbins at the Genius Network Annual Event. He has done me wonders. I can't even tell you that the people he has connected me to. What's important about that I think is that I've given back to him too. I thought a mentor was someone who's going to come along and give to me. It doesn't work that way, but he gave to me first and in doing so, made me go, “I’d do anything for this guy.”
Dustin
That's a big takeaway right there. Joe's got amazing information and is an amazing guy. I definitely second that. I could go on forever and ever with you. I find it personally fascinating your walk of life and what you're up to in the world. If folks want to continue the journey and keep tabs with what you're up to in the world, maybe check out some Light Hustle Publishing, where's the best place for folks to do that?
Anna
Go to LightHustlePublishing.com. We do free calls with anybody who thinks they're interested in doing a book. They can go to FreeBookCall.com and set up a time and find out that everybody's got a book in them. Why not talk to us and figure out what it is?
Dustin
Anna, thank you big time for being on the show. I hope you had as much fun as I did.
Anna
You’re the best interviewer I have ever spoken into. You were so prepared. You have many good questions. You seem so excited. I’m not bull crapping here. Thank you so much for doing this. It was such a pleasure.

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