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Jay Kelley: Peak Savings, Mindfulness & Aging In Reverse

Our guest is Jay Kelley. If you're just getting to know Jay, you should know that he's a repeat entrepreneur who is the CEO of the new goal-based savings app, Peak Money. Prior to that, he served as the CEO of Spire Labs, a digital health and fitness company, and before that was a Founding Executive of the Documentary Channel, a cable channel for an independent documentary film.

In this episode, we covered the gamut. We talked about how to alleviate that financial stress through the power of savings and how a little app can help you do that. In addition, we talked about the power of mindfulness and how it actually has saved him, his relationship and his career. We also talked about AGING IN REVERSE. If you've ever thought you wanted to age in reverse and look younger as you get older than you're going to want to read what Jay has to say. We talked about the power of wonderful naiveté and how that can be your greatest asset when it comes to business. This episode is packed with money, saving and personal finance with a little sprinkle of entrepreneurship and some good old-fashioned hustle along the way. If that sounds interesting to you, you're going to love this episode.

Dustin
Jay, you were successful, but you were also a workaholic living on an airplane and physically burnt out trying to keep up with the hustle and bustle of the entertainment industry. Come to find out you were on the brink of a divorce, but the chief of Vanderbilt's Trauma Unit introduces you to mindfulness. You commit to practicing and within two weeks your wife asked you, “What's going on with you?” When it's so easy to get caught up in grinding, hustling and building something, why do you think you were receptive to mindfulness at that moment?
Jay
I would have to say that it was maybe a little bit of luck and maybe an intuitive knowing that something needed to change. To go back a little bit, prior to that, I had made a decision that was part of the same intuition. We've built this company up called the Documentary Channel. It was being sold to Participant Media, which was Jeff Skoll’s media company. I had the opportunity either go on or to join this fledgling startup with some people who are fifteen years younger than me. They were all college soccer players and they had this vision and it caught. I thought, “I don't know why, but something is wrong. What I'm doing is not sustainable. I think I'm going to go do this with these guys.” In the same moment, I was already engaged with the Vanderbilt University Medical Team on a project to try to help these nurses and doctors manage stress. The context was already there, but I also had been trying, experimenting with so many other things to try to heal this burnout state that I was in that I just said, “I'm going to try this too.” Frankly, it was probably experiment number ten out of what would be an infinite number of experiments. That was one of the foundational ones that helped me to deeply heal from this burnout state and most importantly heal my relationship with my wife, my kids, my friends, all of that.
Dustin
When you exited the Documentary Channel, did you take time off in between that and what would become Spire?
Jay
Two weeks, which is absurd when I look back on it. It was not enough. It’s funny when you asked me to send you a headshot for this episode, I sent you two. There's the headshot from a couple of years ago, and then there's the headshot from after that two-week period. It was the moment that I stepped into this digital wellness space. The difference between the two is what my colleagues call aging in reverse. I look exhausted. My eyes are puffy, my face is puffy. My soul isn't making its way through my face. You fast forward to the new headshot and it's like I'm coming out. I would say if I had jumped two weeks into more of the same, I don't know where I would be, but what I did jump into was a culture and a social support system, a bunch of young people who were focused on iterating on themselves, on their health, on their practices, on their daily habits, on every aspect of their lives, the same way that they were iterating on a digital product. I think if I hadn't had that social support system there, it would not have turned out the way it did.
Dustin
Jay, I want to take a step back actually because you have quite an interesting path. I'm always fascinated with how people arrive at where they end up, especially entrepreneurs. You started as an English teacher and a poet, then an international soccer coach, which I get the tie in now. You were an instructor, an editor at Johns Hopkins University and then you got into advertising. How did all of that lead to you getting involved with the Documentary Channel, which was your venture before this?
Jay
I was an English major in college, which is imminently usable and completely unusable from a practical basis. I think the most usable thing is being able to write. If you can write well, then you can think well. If you can think well, hopefully you can speak well and you convince people to take action around a vision. I did that for a while with my wife. We lived in Latin America, we lived in the Middle East. One interesting thing I was thinking back on was I have always had this mash-up between something else and fitness. I was teaching English, but I was also a soccer coach. I’m doing my creative writing degree the way that I would write a poem. It was poetry by the way. I would go on a run. I would run and let's say three to six miles in, over the miles, I would actually compose lines in my head until my head was full. I felt like I would forget the first ones because I'm composing the later ones. I would turn back around, run home as fast as I could, get out a notebook and start to write them down frenetically. I have all these notebooks with sweat puck marks on them and running ink from all of these composed lines. There was always exercise in that.
After coming back from this stint overseas, this gets back to the importance of my wife and I think the importance of having a social support system and whatever you do from health to money. My wife basically said, “We're not going to continue traveling and teaching for a few more years.” I just said, “You're right. I trust you.” I always trust her gut whatever she says. We had no idea what we were going to do. We had jobs that were lined up in Seoul, South Korea and we were about to go. At the last minute we said, “We're not going. Now what?” I could write. I got a job in advertising. Advertising was an incredible teacher because you're presented with a different business problem and a communication problem every week. This company needs to communicate this, but they've got this audience and there's a gap and how do you do that? How do you emotionally connect? Solve that and then here's a new one, solve that. You begin to build up the skill set of solving communication and business problems.
What happens to a lot of people in advertising is that many people have a deep altruistic streak. They start doing stuff pro bono for clients that are in charities or they do art or they do something else. For me, I wanted to make documentary films. In the journey of creating my first documentary film, I was introduced to this guy named Tom Neff. He was an Oscar-nominated documentary filmmaker. I went into his office. He had a big marker board. On the marker board were several projects. There was a documentary film about Elvis and there were a few other things, and there was the word the Documentary Channel. I said, “I think I get that on my cable package.” He said, “No, it doesn't exist.” I was like, “It should exist.” He had put it on paper several years before and it hadn't taken off. It was sitting there and he was working on film projects. I went home to my wife. There's the recurring theme of the importance of having this social support system. I said, “I'm going to go out and I'm going to raise capital to make a film and then I'm going to have to raise capital again to make the next film. Why don't I go out and raise capital to make a distribution channel for films? I'll go back and I'll make the film later. I'll probably be a different person. It will probably be a different film, but why don't I do that?” She said, “I think that's a better idea.” I said, “How do you raise money?”
Dustin
That's what I was just about to ask you. That's a bold thing coming from where you came from.
Jay
You have to figure stuff out and you go talk to people who have done it and then you begin to exercise your network. That was the very beginning of figuring out how to build a network. I think it was before LinkedIn. I had pieces of notebook paper and then writing things out on Microsoft Word and getting Excel spreadsheet. I was calling everybody I knew and networking out from there. There were friends and family around. The very first re-invigoration check was from my dad. It wasn't huge. It was a, “I believe in you, son,” check. From there, we put friends and family together. There was an institutional investor that we wanted to bring on board and I ended up calling this guy probably fifteen times. I kept hitting around him in my network and people would say, “You need to talk to this guy.” Each time I would call, I kept a list of the names of the people who had referred me. I kept adding to that list. Eventually, it was so and so all the way down this list suggested that I give you a call. He finally called back and he said, “I'm probably not a good candidate, but I'll be happy to meet with you.” He wound up being our sustaining investor for a period of time.
Dustin
Were you at all in intimidated or a little nervous about raising money or did you have this conviction and that drove you to overcome every obstacle or know along the way?
Jay
I think for a lot of entrepreneurs, at least the first time around, there is this wonderful naiveté. It can help you not to know things. All I knew was that this needed to get done and it was at an interesting time in our lives because I had a conversation with my wife. I said, “I'm going to step out and I want to do this, but it's not going to pay anything for a while.” She said, “I'll support you.” She got pregnant. We were trying to raise up to a certain point so that we could then boot-up operations, but then we had our first son. We weren't quite done so I took a job at an insurance company, but I knew that we could get this done. I took a job for three months and then we closed it and then I quit that job and I joined the newly formed company. Back to your original question. Not knowing helped it be less intimidating, it was a blank slate. Let's go make something. Passion pushes you through.
Dustin
I feel like with all the stuff that's out there and the things that entrepreneurs build that naiveté and focusing on that line, even if you know it's hard to do, it doesn't matter. This just needs to get done. Documentary Channel, you're there for about nine years and then it sells to Participant Media. You have the opportunity naturally to go join that team and continue on, but you decided to join LifeKraze, which would become Spire, the fitness software company. Why did you decide not to continue on that path? Were you burnt out at that point and you knew this would be a trap or was the other thing just more compelling to you?
Jay
For that transition, it was a little bit of both. I took my wife and kids out to Los Angeles, which is where I would have moved probably four times. I engaged in private school interviews for my oldest son. I was trying to activate all of the entertainment levers that I had to try to get a slot for my son in school and engineering all these moments for my wife and my family like a sunset stroll on Santa Monica Beach and a hike. Inevitably, we'd be driving back to our hotel in Beverly Hills and it would be bumper to bumper traffic, knuckle white, my youngest son screaming bloody murder in the back and my wife looking at me, but we were going to do it. We were emotionally there. Two weeks before having to give my answer, I get a call from someone who knows me who was a lead investor in LifeKraze, this digital startup. He says, “I know you're about to move. Come and meet with these two founders.” I said, “I'll have lunch.”
It was in Nashville, Tennessee. It was on South Street. I sat down and these young guys compared to what I'd been coming out of, which was just this crazy grind, they were so refreshing. They saw things in a different way. It turned out that we all played college soccer. We had that in common. I was just fifteen years older. We hit it off and I went home and I was like, “Let me weigh this.” On the one hand, I can go out to Los Angeles and I can jump into more of the same but even crazier and be in a parking lot of a city for who knows how long and who knows what will happen with that and drag my wife and kids there. Or I can go back into its crazy bootstrapped startup mode. With these young inspiring, super-bright people who are focused on something that feels like going back home to me like healing. Focused on health, focused on personal optimization and it became a no brainer.
Dustin
Your decision there two weeks before to take a chance on that, was health an important priority to you? Did you feel calling? How did you come to arrive at that decision?
Jay
Health in that case, it was more intuitive. I felt like there were many things that lined up. The sensation of burnout in the entertainment industry, that was something that was a red flag for going forward. Certainly, just being around younger, vital people who were experimenting on how to optimize their lives was so incredibly refreshing. Not only be around that but to have that be a part of the mission of a company, it felt like going home in some way. This was when I was twelve and I've seen this in my own son too who was about fourteen. I've found a nutrition book and I read everything I could about nutrition. I got deeply into it. I got my own rowing machine and I was totally self-driven with both physical and nutritional exercise.
My parents didn't tell me or encouraged me to do any of this. I don't know why. It felt like something I needed to do. That got so lost for a while and it was an interesting coming back but after entering that, it was a culture that valued support for each other. A culture that valued experimentation, looking at data, iterating over and over again. That culture is what allowed me to move through this personal process. It took a few years. At the point at which I've met Dr. Rick Miller and was introduced to mindfulness as a practice, I've been trying all kinds of things. I'll say deep nutritional biohacking. Those two things were the foundation for everything else that I've been able to do since then. That journey is one of just being completely burned out to doing distance trail running and mountain biking, so it’s a real vitality.
Dustin
What you describe is very similar, Jay. I feel like we're on a very similar path. There's a lot of excitement and energy here at WealthFit. I hear you in my head because I feel the same way. I want to ask you about this because I want to talk about Peak. I want to talk about money and the opportunity that people have. Out of Spire, you spun out Peak, a finance software. I get pivoting in business, but Peak seems a little far from the original mission of building fitness software or apps. What's the story here behind Peak?
Jay
We had been focused on wellbeing in a broader sense. There are many elements to that. There's physical wellbeing, there's emotional wellbeing, there's social wellbeing. I had been going around to a lot of healthcare conferences and giving talks specifically on social support as a mechanism for spreading health behaviors and health outcomes. Spire and some of the platforms we have built step tracking and competition apps and social networks were social spread delivery systems for a lot of that stuff. We kept seeing over and over again at a lot of these conferences and then a lot of the populations we were working with financial health or flipping on its head financial stress as something that was coming into everybody's consciousness.
A lot of big studies were coming out on the loss of productivity in the workplace that employers were actually experiencing because of the financial stress that their employees were undergoing. People are actually taking care of financial train wrecks in the workplace. Even deeper studies about the impacts of financial stress. Two-thirds of people that you survey will report having some acute level of anxiety surrounding their finances. On an even deeper level, the majority of people get a cortisol spike when they think about money on any level when they think about their income. They think about their savings or lack thereof, their expenses, they get a cortisol spike, which is a stress response.
You get too many cortisol spikes, you begin to compromise your immune system. Your telomeres in your genes begin to fray more rapidly. You begin the rapid aging process and then that innovating that happens in your body then leads you to make poor decisions with your finances. It becomes this never-ending cycle. What we discovered was that all of these things are interlocking. Your finances, your social, your emotional and your physical health are very deeply integrated. We found that there was a real need. Beyond that a lot of the things we had learned in the world of fitness and in the world of mindfulness. Even of nutrition, a lot of the things that make people successful there are easily portable over into the world of finance.
We came to that realization and we decided this was worth pursuing. We spun out a separate company. We began to capitalize that. We moved to team into it and we launched. You are talking to a work in progress, but it's very exciting because we can see this path forward that is a carrying out of our mission and our vision. Our mission, vision is to help people reach their peak potential by maximizing their wellbeing, but all of those areas of wellbeing: emotional, social, physical. The interesting part is that we're going to anchor that around something that you have to do in a modern society, which is how to transact money, so financially. We're going to use that as the center and then build around that all of these relationships between the other parts of your life.
Dustin
I want to dive into that but I want to figure out how did you come to determine, you get excited about something, you're doing research, you're doing data. You've got this one business model and you started to pick up steam and you're saying, “Finance is a part of this equation.” How did you come to that decision as the chief there and taking a look at strategy and direction and say, “I think this is viable versus a distraction?” I think a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with that. To add a little more here, in business you’ve got to pivot a lot. However, you can't keep pivoting because you're not ever going to get a product out to the world. How did you walk that line of, “This is something that is viable and now let's spin this out?”
Jay
You have to triangulate a lot. We had to make sure, first of all, that it was still in keeping with a broader mission. That broader mission for us is to empower people to reach their peak potential and maximize wellbeing. Is it still in keeping with that? Are people internally excited about it? One of the things that was a triggering moment was we were engaged with a bank and that bank came to us and said, “If we were to do something like this, why don't you guys put together some ideas?” These FinTech partnerships, they're always a technology company and a bank partnering together.
We went back to our team and we said, “Do you think you could tackle building a neobank or a personal finance app or a savings app?” We had no idea what the answer would be. The product team had a deep fluency that we didn't even know about in financial services products. They were using a ton of them. They knew what they would do differently. We said, “We'll take three weeks as an internal test and see what we can build. It might just be a PowerPoint presentation. It might be something a little more rudimentary prototype. We went into a cave and we tested that out for three weeks. We came out of that, not just with an idea, but with a fully functioning prototype app, a brand.
We had submitted trademark applications. We had a business plan and a financial model. Somehow the market was pulling this out of the company as a need. We had the product team on the product and we had the business team doing a lot of outside research. We were talking to people in the wellness space, “Is there a need for financial wellness? Are the solutions out there good solutions? What can we bring to this that maybe others can't or what can we do possibly better or more uniquely for a unique audience?” All of those questions came together and we tested them over and over again. We test them with the board. We tested them with the product team. We test them with the market. We also did a ton of external market surveying. We did a lot of email surveys. We pulled people in. We did hundreds of hour-long deep-dive interviews with prospective customers. That was the next step, but having gone through a number of those steps, we then just had to make a call. You do have to make a call without having all the information. You can't ever have 100% of the information. What we did have was alignment and that alignment was enough of a signal and we did have some information from the market and it was enough of a signal for us to say this is worth doing.
Dustin
I think people can appreciate the effort and the work and the dev that you've put behind this and how it's been created. I'd like to speak to what Peak the app does specifically? There are no shortages of financial apps out there that help people either save or manage their money or check-in with what's going on there. What are you doing differently? What did you see as the opportunity when you launched Peak to the world?
Jay
What I'm going to do is I'm going to walk you through where it is now. As I said, we just launched it. As we look at ourselves, we also look at our product and the relationship between our product and our customer base as an unending iterative process. We knew we had to jump into one of several financial services. We also knew that based on our health and fitness background, we wanted to create a relationship with something that was not a financial but it was another part of your life. From the surveys, you've got pain and gain. The pain that kept coming up was financial stress. Everybody kept telling us, “I'm deeply stressed.” The gain was tied to financial services, “If I could just save. If I could just start saving. If I could just begin the process or have some way to make it make sense.” As step one for us in the market, it's savings and stress combined. With Peak, on the savings side of the equation, you come in and you begin by setting up goals. Since we're very fitness and outdoor-oriented, that's in our name. Each goal is this three-dimensional animated peak or mountain to climb. You set up goals whether it's your trip to Thailand or you’re saving for a down payment for a house. We found that people wanted it to be simple and to be visual and then porting in some of those practices from the health and wellness space.
We ask them to say for something that is important to them specifically. Because that's one of the keys from our wellness space is coming up with your why. In health coaching you, if you’re dealing with somebody who has metabolic syndrome and you're trying to get them off the couch, you have to ask them what is their purpose for doing this first. We ask people, “What is your purpose?” We ask them, “What is your time horizon? Is it six months? Is it a year? Is it six weeks?” We give them a set of tools that can then help to automate that practice and give them daily, weekly, monthly polls from their savings account so that they can actually get there on time. We incorporate a lot of the things that you've seen out there roundups to get them there quicker.
On the stress relief side, we actually have built into the app a meditation feature for starters. We know that people have this cortisol spike when they even think about money. We want to bring close proximity to your financial life and to stress relief. We have a meditation feature inside the app. We also have these mindful moments that get delivered right at the top of the app via Push notification to remind people to take a mindful moment out of their day to get off the app that is delivering that message for at least ten minutes to get out and do some exercise. There's this holistic delivery system of all of these wellness habits and practices. Some of them relate very directly to money. Some of them do not at all. We're back to anchoring around something you must have. You must have money and then building around these habits that relate to your money life but might not directly be housing and transacting money.
Dustin
This is fascinating to me because it seems like two different apps. You have your meditation app and then you have traditional savings. You've combined them. I can understand coming to the platform because I want to see my money visually and you're going to help me with that. I am being surprised a little bit by the stress relief, the meditation. I could see being pleasantly surprised by that. I'm curious, do people come that are maybe the opposite way? Maybe they're more into the mindfulness and meditation space. They're not necessarily into the money as much but they're like, “This sounds interesting and unique.” I'll come for the stress relief and have them tell me to go check out and make sure I'm doing it. They're pleasantly surprised by some of the money features. Does it work that way as well?
Jay
We are specifically targeting people who already have some habit set in the non-money context. If you look at the broader personal finance picture across the country, 57% of people do not have $1,000 saved up for an emergency. There's no debt. That's the majority of the countries. 78% of people live paycheck to paycheck and then two-thirds report this strong anxiety related to their finances. That's an overlay that maybe it heavies up in certain tribes or socioeconomic brackets, but that is top to bottom. There are significant numbers of people who are living paycheck-to-paycheck who have seven-figure incomes. We've seen some of those stories play out in the media.
For solving savings and a finance relationship problem, it is ubiquitous. For us, we want to target people for whom health and wellness and even fitness practices already resonate, and then show them the way that those practices can then be pulled over into another context so that they can have success there. For starters, it's that stress relief. As we go forward, there are all of these other practices that we’re in the process of introducing that are habits. The first one we have is starting with your why. Why are you doing this? We ask you that. Whenever you come in, there's the why. The second is committing. That is you've got to begin small. Whether you're trying to save up $100,000 or climb Mount Everest, it starts with little steps. Begin to get those little steps in place. For us, it's starting an automated transfer. Get some money out of the way. Remove it from your checking account.
Next is breaking through your comfort zone. Are there ways that you can begin to deepen your learning? For that, we’ve got an entire magazine, which is delivered in the app, which helps to tease out some of these other ways of looking at both the saving and the spending and the earning side of your equation. The next is your routine. How do you take this routine from a fitness regimen and build that habit and repetitiveness into your money life? Whether it's reviewing your credit card on a weekly basis, when do you do that? Do you do that first thing in the morning? Do you stack it on top of another habit? Do you meditate and then do it? There are all the interesting things you can do there.
Then tracking your progress, which is incredibly important. You can’t fix it. You can’t improve it if you can't measure it. We've got tracking tools, but we want to deliver those almost in a Fitbit way. The final thing that we haven't gotten into that I'm dying to get into, which ties back into my personal experience or our experience with social networks is teaming up. How do you build a support system around your goals? How do you build an accountability system? People who can support you through the trial and error of all of this. We're on a journey. We've got all of these habits, all of these practices from the world of fitness that we are introducing piece by piece, but we're doing that in relationship with our existing customers and with their feedback.
Dustin
I'm intrigued by the social support system that you talk about. I think about my own life and where I've won and had people support me is where I've grown the biggest. Having coaches, having people in my corner, having mentors. Are you at that point with Peak where you've introduced the social aspect of it yet or is that coming soon?
Jay
We have not yet. We're thinking about that a lot. One of the interesting challenges is to get people to embrace that when it comes to a taboo topic. For so many people, money is an uncomfortable topic but certainly there are ways of doing it. AA has mastered this small group support for something that is very taboo and very difficult to talk about, which is an addiction. The power of social support just can't be underestimated. I don't know if you're familiar with Nicholas Christakis. He's a Harvard researcher and he's studied social networks and found that you are 75% more likely to become obese if a friend in your network becomes obese. That's it. It’s these behaviors and practices. They filter it through the network almost like a virus for good or ill. One of the things we were doing with Spire was using a social network and trying to get people to reward each other, to directly interact with each other around positive accomplishments. Somebody would run a mile. That would be made public and then you would actually receive points for giving points to that person, which had a monetary value. Using that power of social support is incredibly important in any behavior change. I think in the money context, it's something I'm very eager to figure out.
Dustin
The same here at WealthFit. We are incorporating that in some form or fashion, but we believe in that as well to enact the change and transformation that we want to. Jay, what's something that you didn't realize at the start that surprises you when you’re building Peak?
Jay
For starters, it takes some time to build something that is in a highly regulated industry. That should not have been a surprise because we were coming from healthcare, which is the other highly regulated industry. A lot of people have said, “Are you a masochist? Why would you go from healthcare where you're dealing with HIPAA and the protection of data to financial services where you're transmitting money and you've got to be incredibly careful and incredibly secure and it's got to be perfect?” I think one of the surprises, which shouldn't have been a surprise, was that it does take some time to build all of that infrastructure to make sure that the money is being moved well. That the money is incredibly safe, that the money is housed well, that there are prevention measures for fraud.
Beyond all this stuff that we've been talking about, which is human behavior. How do we help people to become their greatest selves by tapping into the power of habits and by tapping into social support? Underneath all that in the financial services industry, there's a lot of piping and wiring more than you would imagine just to get all that to work well. It took us a while. We had our prototype, which was how we interact with customers. We did that in three weeks. Once we decided to go forward, then we had to build everything underneath that. That took a while but we've got that built, so on top of it, there's a whole lot that we can do that's exciting in that behavior change space.
Dustin
With technology, we've been on this planet for quite some time. Education has been around forever. That's why WealthFit exists is to educate folks. However, technology is interesting because we're getting the negative reports of people are on their phone a little bit too much and it is starting to change human behavior. I'm curious, do you feel like that’s the missing key here to transforming human behavior. Knowledge has been around forever. It's maybe the lack of implementation we could site or maybe because the technology wasn't there to make it easier for us to execute on that. Do you feel we're at this tipping point in society where with tech, with the things that are coming out, we have this opportunity to change people's behavior when it comes to personal finance or savings or investing?
Jay
I think we totally are. You can see it playing out in one industry after another. The big legacy systems in the financial services industry, they make doing things that feel like Airbnb easy. They make things difficult. There's a lot in the old legacy systems that have held the experience and the convenience and the creativity of building tools that are customer-centric. It's held a lot of that back. Industry by industry and financial services is no different. We're starting to see a lot of those legacy systems get rebuilt. That is doing the things that we want to do a bit easier and a bit faster. You'll see that experience, it will begin by being faster, but it allows product companies to be significantly more creative and to iterate faster and to meet the customer's needs.
When it comes to technology in general, I'm sure you do too. I have a very ambivalent relationship with it. I've run technology companies and at the same time, I've had both of my sons in a Waldorf school, which is zero technology. It's because I do believe that we're running an uncontrolled sociological experiment. Everybody that will be using Peak and our tools are already in. They're totally wired up. You have to go where people are in order to make an impact. While we're there, can we actually ask people to unplug? Can we take a hit on our daily active user metrics by telling people to go do something that might actually help to bring that relationship and technology into better balance in our life?
Dustin
When you were telling people to get off the app, that’s what popped into my head. I said, “That's so counter to what a tech company does.” I appreciate that about what you are doing. It takes some gumption and a clear vision to make that happen. Jay, I am fascinated by what you are up to. I'm always fascinated to help people to change behavior because it's through change and transformation that we become our best selves. For folks that are interested in this that want to save better, maybe you want to play around with the app and explore and see what's possible for them. Maybe they need to unwind a little bit and unplug and they need that pleasant reminder. Where can folks check out Peak? What's the best way for folks to find out more information?
Jay
The best way is to go to the App Store. We are iOS only, so sorry Android people, we’re coming there next. If you're in the App Store, search for Peak Money. You can also find us online at PeakMoney.com.
Dustin
I want to ask one more thing. What's the future look like? What are you most excited about?
Jay
I'm most excited about two areas. One is looking at the different areas of one's financial life that we can begin to add. There's your investing life, there's your debt reduction life, there's your spending life. We've modeled all those things out, but we want to add those in very carefully and very deliberately. The other area is looking at all of these intersections between your money life and other areas of your life. Can we find interesting ways to make your money life and your fitness life meaningful in the intersection with each other?
Dustin
We’ll be keeping an eye and keeping tabs on Peak and what you're up to. I'm excited to see the developments coming out. Thanks for being on the show. Jay, thank you for just being you and sharing your wisdom. I know that people reading will be moved and inspired and will take that action. You either start that business or manage that money better or make that commitment to invest their money. That's the whole goal of the Get WealthFit Show. Thanks for everything you’re up to.
Jay
Thank you, Dustin. I appreciate it.

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