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Landi Jac: Secret Service, Corporate Drug Busts & The Money Train

You are in for an incredible treat. We have a special friend of mine and an amazing person that I'm excited for you to meet.

She is the Founder and Global Director of Worldwide Business Intelligence, which is part of a group of companies that serve a premium circle of entrepreneurial leaders that live around the world.

Clients include award-winning entrepreneurs, gold medalists, management consultants, and presidents of Global Speakers Federation, inventors, coaches and Ernst and Young Entrepreneur of the Year, sports celebrities, best-selling authors and educational game-changers.

She is also the Editor-in-Chief for Lead-Magazine, which shares the success story of amazing leaders that she comes in contact with around the world. She has done business in over 50 countries and it is climbing.

Her business methodologies and techniques are licensed under Worldwide Business Intelligence and used in international schools, business diplomas and boardrooms all around the globe.

Our special guest is Landi Jac.

In this episode, we're going to talk about the Secret Service. If you're into a little espionage, a little bit of sleuthing, you're going to love this.

We also talk about the corporate drug bust. You are definitely going to love this story.

The real meat of the show is all about the money train and how you can design a system for selling, a system for going and getting leads, developing relationships and ultimately creating a long-time journey with clients. We also get into what industrial psychology is and why you want to know about it.

We talk about the power of LinkedIn and why it's useful as a tool and how to leverage it. We talk about the S-word, sales.  

Dustin
The setting is South Africa, you were at university when the Secret Service approaches you about joining them, but you turned them down. Landi, that would have taken your life in a completely different direction if you had chosen differently. How did you know, at such a young age, that ‘no’ was the appropriate answer for you?
Landi
Dustin, it was an auspicious day because in the beginning, I thought it was a joke. The guy came in, he tracked me down in the cafeteria where I sat and he asked if he can join me for lunch, which in itself was a weird thing, but I thought, “Humor me.” He sat down while I was having my plate of chips and started to talk to me about my studies and why did I choose those studies. I was explaining to him the economy part of it and industrial psychology. He wanted to know what I'm going to do with my career and I told him my plans and my dreams.
He started to talk about a career in industrial espionage. He explained to me that that means that you working for bank A. They fast track you to the boardroom and then you’re also at the same time working for bank B. They fast track you to that boardroom and then you have to bring information from bank B to bank A and vice versa. He told me I'll never need any money in my life and I'll be looked after. I said to him, “What's the downfall?” He said to me, “In South Africa, it would be a life sentence. You'll go to jail and you'll get a life sentence or you'll be put to death.” That was enough for me to say, “No.”
Dustin
I didn't know that part of the story.
Landi
I realized then that he’s dead serious. He was honest and open. He said to me he’s from an organization, you can't give the name but they're actively recruiting.
Dustin
Why do you think he approached you? Do you ever think about that?
Landi
This is only by suspicion. We suspect that my grandfather on my mom's side was in espionage because we can find no family tree for him, it stops dead. The DNA doesn't make sense. There are a lot of questions around him. He was a fine and charming man, but there's so much mystery that surrounds him. Years after that, many people have told me that they seem to want to recruit in bloodlines. They look for a family. That might be the answer but I'm not sure.
Dustin
Originally, I was going to ask you the question, what if you had chosen yes but with such a penalty for getting caught as death. Do you ever think back or it's night and day for you?
Landi
There is something about it that was interesting for me, and that was industrial psychology. I chose that subject for a reason because that for me is not about the psychology that you find within individual clinical psychology. That is about group dynamics and the way that people behave in a group context. We see a lot of that almost silly hysterical behavior in cooperation. Put a bunch of people in a building and it gets fun. There are politics and emotions.
What made me think a lot after that conversation, I never in the future thought I should have taken the job, but he certainly got my mind going. I was thinking, “What's going on in a boardroom that’s alluring? What's big in the corporate world at the top that people will go that far to recruit spies to find the information from one company to another?” That got me interested in a good old business strategy. What happens around those boardrooms and more important what happens if you decide to stop doing, start thinking strategically about things? I thank the man in the coat for that.
Dustin
You know governments do this. It's in movies, the news and media. You hear about it, but to think about companies going to that level, that does get your mind going.
Landi
It's real. We don't realize how real this is, but it happens behind the scenes. These people are ones who make respectable careers out of it, but certainly, make a career out of it.
Dustin
When I was doing background on you, you're an achiever, Master’s in Economy and Industrial Psychology. The way I read industrial psychology was, super psychologist, like industrial-grade. You said it's more about the group dynamic. Will you talk a little bit about that and how do you apply that in everyday life?
Landi
Industrial psychology is the psychology within the business context within a group dynamic. Think things like consumer behavior, how consumers behave, the way they set up a store. The consumer goes closer to the checkout point and there are certain things set up there. Think about the psychology that's associated with branding and the psychology that's associated when you put up a sales presentation and all those things. It leans more towards group dynamics, how groups behave and it leans more towards what is the type of things that will influence humans as a species in how they make their decisions.
That's why big data on those things are popular because big data provides people with incredible deep psychology and human behavior. It's got a bad rep over the past few years because there are good people and there are bad people. There’s a lot of people who take this information and misuse it to influences the masses and then there are other people who use it to motivate. This has made me step a little bit out of the ring and take that one or two steps back and observe more of what's going on when it comes to either a person making a buying decision or accepting a marriage proposal.
Dustin
You hear about psychology and I wish I had known about it in university. I would have liked it because I like influence, marketing and what gets people into action. How does your mind go? When you're back in university, you're like, “I like psychology, but I'm going to do the consumer side. I'm going to do industrial.” How did you end up arriving there versus traditional psychology or something else?
Landi
The masses of people and clients I work with always come back to me and say, “I wish I had better career choices. I wish my options were on the table for me.” Many people tell me they were aware of becoming a teacher, a cop or a librarian. As life goes and unfolds, you learn about your options. I was lucky. I went for a general degree in economics and I decided to do that as my career advice. I knew that if I have a general degree, I would have exposure to different subjects and that will hopefully take you down a path. One of those subjects was industrial psychology.
I went with Economy and it gave me a lot, but it's not what I want to do for the rest of my life. I had statistics and I had all these subjects that are useful to know but doesn't make me want to get out of bed. When I saw Industrial Psychology, I looked at the subjects and I knew. With all of my subjects in school, high school, and all of my subjects in university, I was one of those students that had to walk up to the board and make sure I passed. With industrial psychology, it was cum laude. I was getting honors on everything because I was in my space. I was in something that was interesting to me. It's crazy to think about how many people are out there still with all our technology and with everything we have that discover what they want to do at the age of 50, 60 or never.
Dustin
It is powerful to find the thing that gets you going. You can go through school, you can go through life hating it and barely eking by but then you pivot a little bit. You find that field and you wake up at 4:00 in the morning or you stay up late into the night or work on the weekends because you love it. I want that for everybody and it's out there. It's important and I want to echo what you said. Sampling the things that are out there is easy to stay inside your box. Going and doing the things that you don't think you would enjoy but giving an open space and opportunity is incredible.
Landi
Exposure is probably one of the best teachers because the more exposure you have and the more you're out there and the more you experience things, the more you have real choices.
Dustin
You are armed with these incredible degrees. You’re top of your class there. Your journey leads you into the corporate world but you don't stick around. You wouldn't be here if you didn't make that reinvention or that pivot, like your partner, Mike. I'm always curious to ask those that are achievers and find success in a corporate world, but then make that sharp turn into entrepreneurship. What is your advice to those that are following and they want to make that jump? They're winning in a career, but they can't find themselves making the jump. What's your advice to push them over that edge if it's the right move?
Landi
Dustin, knowing myself better than what I've known myself a few years before and everyone goes through this process of evolution. I knew after probably eight years in corporate that I'll have to get out. I was getting to know more about myself and my value system and one of my values is freedom. With that, you cannot continue to work for a manager. I'm not shooting down corporate because people as much as they underestimate how much corporate can suppress you, they also underestimate their incredible skills that corporate gives you. When you get to know yourself better and you understand your values better, which I know is something that you spoke to Mike about, some of these things become un-negotiable.
I knew at some stage that for me to leave corporate is not necessarily going to be a luxury. It's going to become something that's essential to my being. I had that honest conversation with myself, I had to look at myself one morning in the mirror and go, “You will not be able to last here for much longer whether you want to or not.” I started to make a plan. A plan, even though it's one of the oldest words and the most overused words, it’s probably one of the most powerful things. I said to myself, “I'm going to probably need eight months of salary.” I'm not going to sit in my first years of entrepreneurship and go through the hell, the tears, the stress and the worry that anyone else does because if I'm going to set myself up to do that, I'm going to be back in corporate in no time. My family is going to laugh at me, they're going to go, “I told you so.” I can't tell you how far I've gone to my life to avoid the words, “I told you so.”
I need a plan so that I can last in my first year of entrepreneurship. I observed, studied and I looked at some patterns around me. Another thing that you learn to do in industrial psychology is to pick up on patterns. I realized the pattern tells me that most entrepreneurs fail in the first year. The pattern tells me that they get out without any financial backup. The pattern tells me that they overspend in the first year. The pattern tells me that the moment you get a salary rise, you immediately spend that and something else. Let's step out of the pattern. Let's not do what other people do. I realized at that stage that when a person stays with a company and they get promoted, and when a person moves from company to company and they get salary increases because of that, your chances of moving from company to company and earning more money is better.
In my experience and when I was at that stage, then staying with a company and climbing the corporate ladder. I've kept on doing it. I kept on jumping from a few jobs to a few jobs. In my last job, I managed to, with that formula, double my salary. In that doubling of salary, I put a rule in and the rule was to spend no more. Put this extra money you've received aside. I'll put it aside and I was in a short period of time blown away to see that I was able to save eight months of salary and then I made my exit.
Dustin
When you were putting your plan together, did you decide at that moment, “I’ve got to have eight months,” that day and then you start saving for eight months? Did you have an idea and then finally around the eight-month mark, something bad happened or you got fed up or you were crystal clear? You said, “This is the day.” What was that final thing that said, “I'm no longer working here?”
Landi
Even though I got approached by the Secret Service or wherever this man was from, and even though I’ve never got involved in the Secret Service. From the moment I stepped into corporate, it took me probably two or three years working in the corporate environment for my employers to start getting me to do undercover jobs for them. For example, they would get me in to do a drug bust for them. The CEO would come to me and say, “Landi, we've noticed there are some youngsters using drugs. We think there's a mole.” I'm going, “I'm not someone who’s trained in the police service or anything.” I don't know why people ask these things.
This company that I'm referring to specifically said to me, “There are kids here in the corporate environment that’s using drugs. I want you to sort it out for us. I want you to investigate and we'll give you whatever support you need.” I had no one on this with me. I would be at work at 5:00 in the morning so that I can go through people's drawers and see what they're doing. I would be watching cameras and I would be observing people.
With my first corporate drug bust, I caught out a bunch of young overachiever kids who are using in those days called Kiddies Coke. I realized that these are young mothers and fathers who can't sleep at night, yet they go to work and they asked to overachieve. They take their children's medication Ritalin and then they squash and then they sniff that. They call it Kiddies Coke and that gives them this performance. Please, if you're reading this, don’t try that at home.
I had to talk to the IT department and their filters and ways to find out that if a person sends or receives an email with the word Ritalin and that we can interview them. I interviewed a lot of people. I eventually came up with ways of them to split each other. I would say to one person, “That person told me this about you and that person told that about you.” Making stuff up and then people would go, “I thought they would keep the secret.” They start talking again to each other. With this first drug bust, I followed this trail to a point where I eventually found a photo of the CEO who hired me with coke strips under her nose. I realized that she sets up this whole thing so that people can supply her with drugs. That was a big one.
Dustin
What do you do in that situation?
Landi
I dismissed people already. By then, I had quite a few young adults dropped off in drug institutions, conversations with their parents. I realized there was so much more involved in this syndicate. I looked at her and I left her office. A week later I resigned. I said, “I cannot work for a company that got me in there to do a drug bust and then it ends up she's the culprit.” I went to the second company and did the same.
I worked for these companies from a risk and compliance perspective. I did their policy-making and I was looking at the risk of the company, but for some reason, they kept on dragging me into these things. I went to the second company after that. They got me into drug bust involved as well. This time I decided I'm not going to go through that whole thing again. I got in my car, I drove to the nearest police station, I said to the people there, “Who wants a fun job?” One of the police guys put his hands up, I said, “Come.” I employed him as a ghost employee for a week and he busted people for me. That's how you learn.
The question was what made me decide I need to leave? The third company that I worked for had a massive strike with employees and I had to dismiss sixteen of them at once and take them to what is called in South Africa, the CCMA. You might refer to it as a tribunal. People have different terminology for it all over the world. Taking these sixteen people to court and getting them to go into a mutual agreement of the employer.
I’ve got multiple death threats. People are showing me they're going to cut my throat. Even with the first companies, I have people sending me messages telling me, “You better get out of this drug bust. We're going to kill you.” A lot of people get out of corporate because of stress and anxiety. I had fun with this. I learned so much about what happens below the scenes, especially from a corporate perspective and what people get up to. It wasn't worth my sanity and my well-being, so I got out and I decided, “I'm going to do my own thing.”
Dustin
One of the things that I'm thrilled about you and your partner, Mike, is that you've created content for us. You’re here and we've got courses that you graciously have created. I'm happy that people will get that backstory as they watch your course, which is completely different. It's not about the corporate drug bust. It's around this thing that you have both co-created called the Money Train method. It's targeted to people that want to go from corporate and start a business, or people that have already started a business but are a little troubled by sales or income coming in through. You've developed the Money Train, which I love. Will you give people a high-level overview of what is this money train concept?
Landi
I'm passionate about the Money Train because it helps people. I remember in my corporate days. I was seeing so much toxicity in the workplace. Many of you reading may still be in that position where you want to have freedom. You want to be able to make decisions. You want to get out, but that bridge is not clear to you. You've acquired a lot of skills and you have a lot of problems that you can solve for a target market. You have your entrepreneurial friends and you hear and you see them fail. You’re going, “I'm not sure if I'll be able to do that.” You have more stress. For many of you reading, you might not want to leave that job. You might be happy there, but also know there are a lot of people who want to get out. The Money Train was created for you so that you have a simple five-step system. If you follow the rules and if you stick to it with discipline and with integrity, this system will work for you.
The Money Train has five carriages. There’s a method in the madness here. You want this Money Train to run. You don't want to give attention only to the one carriage and then you neglect the other two carriages next. This is what we find happened with a lot of entrepreneurs, their business is disjointed and it's because of the way corporations teach us, departments are disjointed. You have the HR department and sales and IT and everyone talking to each other. We get into our businesses as an entrepreneur and work in those same silos. Everything's disjointed, whereas the Money Train brings it together for you in five easy to follow carriages.
Carriage number one is the lead carriage. In the course, we'll be talking to you about how you can define your ideal lead, and then how to go out with a hunting strategy with a laser focus strategy to find not that lead, not that avatar, not that ideal buyer, that person. That will then lead you down to the rust carriage. When you have that ideal person, what can you do to help them to trust you? Many entrepreneurs say to me, “Landi, I can't sell. I can't be an entrepreneur because people reject me and I hate to be rejected.” When a person rejects you as an entrepreneur, it's because you've failed to get them to trust you as an expert. That empowers you because you realize, “It's not me that is wrong. It's not me that's repulsive. I have failed to get them to trust me as an expert because I do not intimately know them. Therefore, I do not know how to overcome their objections.”
That brings you then into the love carriage. You've overcome the objections. People trust you as an expert. Now, you’re building a relationship with them. You’re getting to know them, they’re getting to know you. It's becoming relational. What a lot of entrepreneurs do out there, they're transactional. They focus on the to-do list, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 things to do, but in that equation, they do not focus on things like, “How am I going to deepen my relationships with people? What can I do to positively influence other people? What can I do to grow my relationships with other people? What can I do to enhance my communication so that people want to have a conversation with me?”
After the love carriage, we're going to take you in the course to the sales carriage. People dread sales, like the black plague. You probably experienced, Dustin. People run a mall. Sales is not about selling something to someone else, it’s about solving people's problems. If you're an entrepreneur or business owner with a good message to the world or you want to solve a problem, then sales is absolutely for you, sales is psychology.
In that course, I am showing you a ten-slide sales deck that if you follow that formula, you'll be able to sell. Of course, you're going to have to practice it. Sometimes I work with a client and you start teaching them to sell and they come back after a day or a week and say, “I can’t talk. I can't do this. I can't sell.” I say to them, “How many people did you sell?” They say, “One and I’ll never do this again.” You probably need to do it 100 times before we can continue this conversation.
You have to repeat the formula over and over again and we’ll give you a formula to repeat. After the sales carriage, which is number four, you will be led then into the journey carriage. This is traditionally referred to as customer relationship management. People talk about customer experience, telling you, helping you there with formulas and ways to take your clients and your customers through amazing experience so that they would want to come back for more.
Dustin
I want to start and talk about the lead carriage. That was a great overview. The lead carriage, you have many different strategies, but one of your big strategies in terms of finding the right person. One of your favorite strategies is LinkedIn. I'm curious as to why you like this platform on social media as one strategy versus some of the others that are out there.
Landi
There are two main things that jumped out for me. Number one, LinkedIn has the most incredible filters. When you go into the search box and you put in the keywords like, I'm looking for a Chief Executive Officer, in San Diego, United States of America, you will get a list of people. You can test and trial with that. You can keep on playing with that and you can say, “CEOs do not necessarily bring up the list that I would like or the list is too small. Let me put in there managing director. In the United States, they don't necessarily like using that word as an example. Let's try something else. Let's boot in the entrepreneur. It doesn't bring up the list that I want to.” You can keep on playing with it.
It's a filter system that helps you to play with that. That's how me and Mike open markets worldwide. We play with these different words. The same person that's called a CEO in the United States of America may be called an SME owner in Singapore or maybe called a managing director in South Africa. This tool enables you to come up with a list with a feasible target market that you can enter. That's my number one reason.
Number two, it brings up people's faces. When you have your list, when you have a potential target market in front of you and you start seeing their faces, they humanize it for you. You can read energy. You can look at your target market and scroll down and go, “I like these faces. These are the people I would love to help. I love the way they dress. I love their energy. These are my people. This is my tribe. This is my crowd.” LinkedIn enables you to do those things. There are not a lot of systems out there that does that.
Dustin
Landi, a couple of people are updating maybe their little wacky LinkedIn photo.
Landi
Many people say to me, “I don't like LinkedIn.” Of course, it's your choice on which platform you want to be. If we check people out, whether we've had them in one of our masterminds or going to have a business dinner with them, we check them out on LinkedIn. Many times, when you search for a person on Google, the LinkedIn profile even comes out above the website, which is crazy if you think how much money people spend on their websites. Me and Mike are not going to necessarily, if we look into a person, go through LinkedIn, the website and Facebook. We’re going to pick one. LinkedIn has become an incredible platform worldwide.
Dustin
When we’ve had guests for the show, we're going to LinkedIn. We’ve used some other ones, but that's the one that is telling and it helps me create questions because it tells that story if you dive in. Their education and then how many years and then why do they switch to this job if they have that or start this company. Let's say we subscribe to this. We go on LinkedIn. This sounds fascinating. We identify some people. I want to talk about messaging because we've all gotten those spam messages. As Mike shared, we've all got those pitches for, “Here's a free eBook.” No one ever reads an eBook. What is the messaging? How do you cut through the white noise to create trust, as you guys call it? How do you do that?
Landi
That's spot on because what you want to do is you want to take this Money Train and you want to insert it into LinkedIn. We’re using LinkedIn as an example as the start of a funnel. If you identify your top three or four funnels, you can have a Money Train for each one of the funnels. Let's talk about the Money Train funnel for LinkedIn. When you look at the Money Train and you look at the five steps or the system, you’ll see that you have lead, trust, love, sales and then you have journey.
Once you've identified the lead, the person on LinkedIn, you can have that name on an Excel sheet and go to the next step, which is trust and say, “What am I going to do now to create trust with this person?” Let’s say the person's name is Dustin, you can say, “I’ve identified Dustin. His job titles are perfect for me in my target market. I like the energy of his photo. He's the CEO of a company. He's an author. He's a speaker. That's exactly the person I want. What will I do to create trust with Dustin?” You have various options there. You can ask Dustin a question. You can get Dustin offline as soon as possible and have with him a coffee. You can invite Dustin to a micro event. You can mention to Dustin in a personal message that I know a mutual colleague of yours and they told me only good things about you. You can go and meet Dustin in his environment.
There are so many things that you can do but ultimately you want to turn it around, you want to ask yourself, “What would be required of other people to create trust with me?” People say to me things like, “Landi, will I create trust as a person if I send them my book?” I turn that question back to them, I say to them, “Would you trust the person when they send you their book?” The answer most of the time is, “No. In fact, I feel spammed.” What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
You have to come up with ways on LinkedIn to get other people to trust you. What works for me and Mike is questions. We go to the person's profile. We go through the trouble of reading up about them, learning a bit about them, and then ask a question that's targeted to them. We would ask, for example, what's happening in their country? On the entrepreneurial platform. We may sometimes mention a political question. We might say to them, “We’re putting a magazine together. We see you’re a speaker. We'd love to showcase you in the magazine, would you be interested or know someone else who's interested?” All these things are quite sincere and authentic, but it comes from a place where we made an effort to get to know the person and then take them down a pathway. The more you do this, the more you'll be able to come up with trust strategies for your business that works best.
Dustin
You mentioned lead, trust, and love. In my head, it's a little unclear because trust and love sound similar. I want you to define that. There's this building trust but it sounds like there's a whole other next level, which is this love carriage. What’s the difference between trust and love?
Landi
People do get confused between the two. The trust carriage, your mission there is to overcome the person's objections. That's it. People are scared because they've been sold. They've been oversold and they're saturated with marketing. We're all the same. I call it the peacock. We resist the sale. I'm going to use the analogy of a Thai massage because for me, it’s a good analogy. There are a lot of people out there who want to have a full body Thai massage but they’re uncomfortable with that because they have questions. Their questions are, “What exactly is that? Will I have to get rid of my clothes? Will it be cold in the room? Will they use oils that are going to make me itch? Can my partner come with me to this?” It's no different with your business. You know your business, your products, and your services, but this person that you've identified have questions, they have objections, and they don't know these things. The trust carriage is for you to overcome those objections. You can see if you don't know your target market, you would know their objections and you wouldn't be able to overcome them.
The love courage, you have overcome their objections. They now trust you. You want to build a relationship with them. You want to get to know each other on a deeper and intimate level. That means conversations have to take place. That means you need to spend time with each other and eyeball each other. To bring this back to our businesses, one of the strategies we use is that we go online with the lead. We create trust with a few questions, then we bring them into a mastermind where there are ten people. During that mastermind, we ask them, “What’s your challenge? What can we solve for you?” We create three hours of face-to-face trust with the person during that mastermind. After the mastermind, we invite them to a one-on-one online session with us where we only solve their problems. We get to know them more personally and give them as much love as possible, so the relationship forms. That's a difference.
Dustin
I want to ask you about this. I don't want to give it away, but I want to give people a little taste. One of you, during the course, you had talked about where you meet with someone matters. I think about so many people out there that are meeting at Starbucks. The context was meeting at a five-star hotel. You want a mirror match. You guys are going after higher-profile people. We're talking LinkedIn, maybe Execs or CEOs. That was a big a-ha because naturally, everyone wants to go to Starbucks. It's free, everyone knows it, but you said that matters. Does that fall in the trust or love? Explain why it matters.
Landi
It can fall in both. The more you get into the Money Train, you'll see the course for the Money Train, we have a specific section on love strategies. We call it the octo-potion. It has tentacles and things in there. We show you different things that you could use there as love strategies, but you're going to find in your business and with your specific sales funnels that certain things will fit easier and better for you in the love strategy part and other things better than trust strategy part. Sometimes the trust strategy can be applied as a love strategy, and a love strategy can be applied as a trust strategy or vice versa. You're going to have to trial and test it. Whether you use this in your trust strategy or your trust carriage or in your love carriage, the environment is incredibly important.
The environment is something that me and Mike take seriously. If I'm having a high-level conversation with you, Dustin, let's say I'm doing it to try and win your trust. It is incredibly important for me that you understand that I view you in high regard. It's important for me that you know that I respect you. It's important to me that you feel safe and secure and then knowing that what I have created here is something of value. To try and relay that message to you in Starbucks, with a plastic cup in front of me. With people screaming and shouting, where the cost of coffee is low-key, the danger here is that the message that's been carried across to you is that is going to be the foundation for our relationship. That's how it's going to be between us. It's going to be plastic, quick, fast, shallow and that's certainly not the message that I want to bring across to my clients. That's certainly not the message that I would want to bring across to you if we're doing a business partnership or deal.
When we have these people in the mastermind, we make sure it's in the boardroom setup. We make sure that the chairs are comfortable. We make sure that, if possible, there's a beautiful view and that people feel listened to and people feel held in high regard. When we take them to the love carriage, let's say it's not an online strategy meeting, let’s say it’s offline strategy meeting, we’ll look for their best hotel in the area. The funny part here is the difference between the coffee that you would have had in your café and the coffee in the hotel is minute, but the setting, the memory, the quality of the conversation is much better.
Dustin
Landi, what I find fascinating, I know this from seminars. You pick a Holiday Inn, a lower budget hotel to an event versus doing one at the Ritz-Carlton, it's much better. I know this stuff, but when you talked about that or when that was shared, it was another a-ha because you can know something, environment matters. When you go to a salesman, I think of previous meetings I've had at Starbucks and I know better. It's funny how if you shift a degree, how you can sometimes forget the knowledge you have because you're in a new environment and you have to apply and take that stuff that you've learned and moved it over here.
Landi
That's why we travel because every time we're in a new environment, we're in a new learning cycle. The idea with the Money Train is that you can go and find these leads online, but the moment you have an interest in them, the idea is to bring them offline into an environment that creates a special experience for both of you.
Dustin
I want to talk a little bit about the S-word, it's the next carriage, which is sales. You even you proactively brought it up. Why do a lot of people get tripped up? Is it because they haven't established trust and rapport and love with their prospects, so they feel they have to resort to cheesy sales tactics? Why is it that many people struggle here?
Landi
There are numerous reasons, but you've hit the nail on the head. People know and we know that a relationship is something that's like a flower. You don't plant a seed and then expect to get up the next morning and then there's a tree or flower. It takes time. You have to give it water. You have to give it your time and your attention. I'm always fascinated by how beautiful nature illustrates wisdom or mirror intelligence back to us, but because we’re disconnected from nature, we disconnect with ourselves.
This knowledge that I'm sharing and you’re sharing, people know these things already, they need to be reminded of it. The money train is like the unfolding flowers. You can't expect a person at a networking meeting to introduce themselves and then go into an immediate sales pitch and you're going to like them. We don't want to be treated like that. I don't want to go, “Landi, I'm Dustin. Please buy this from me.” I'm going to go, “No,” and walk away. That is human nature. Somehow, we expect other people to behave like that towards us. We want them to meet us then we want, within split seconds, them to trust us, even love and like us and buy from us. It's an incredibly unrealistic expectation. That's why people know this deep down inside their heart. This might be a bit harsh, but like foie gras, they're trying to force-feed something without taking their time investing their energy in the person so that that person can feel safe and secure. A lot of people run from sales because of that.
I also find with some of our clients that come into our universe that some people are not confident about the value of what they’ve created. Confidence is a big thing. I find it fascinating how many people find it easier to sell other people's products and services. When it comes to their own products and services, they don't feel confident. Most of the people I come across have a fantastic value. Maybe they have packaged that value in the wrong way. Maybe they have not branded it in the correct way, but there’s always fantastic value, but people that have a confidence problem. That confidence problem leads to them not wanting to sell.
Me and Mike have the confidence to travel the world. Not because we did it once, not because we did it twice, not because we did it three times, it's about repetition. If you're going to travel the world over and over again, you're going to become confident in the world traveling. If you're going to have masterminds over and over again, you're going to become confident. If you're going to sell over and over again, you’re going to become confident.
Dustin
Landi, we've all had those experiences where we've bought something. We essentially have gone through the first parts of the Money Train. We've had these experiences where a salesperson makes that sale then they disappear, like in a puff of smoke. We've had a horrible customer journey. I would like for you to talk about the customer journey. Why is it critical? What are some creative things that you're doing to make the customer experience or client onboarding? What are doing to separate yourself there?
Landi
There's a big gap here in some of these carriages. A lot of people get onto the sales carriage, they make the sale, they almost have a heart attack after that. They almost can't believe they made the sale. During that process, they over promised things. When it comes to delivery, they run a mile and they can't deliver. That in itself has made a lot of people resist sales, but for you as an entrepreneur, there is an opportunity for you to be better and to overcome that by making sure that once you've sold something to someone that you under-promise and over-deliver. You give them a fantastic customer experience. The more you can get this right, the more your Money Train is going to have momentum anyway because those people are going to want to come back to your lead carriage. They might even ask you for up-sales.
You have the opportunity to co-create and co-partner with them and go, “This is becoming a real solid model because it's not the idea that I thumb sucked that I'm taking to market, I know there's a need and I know what people enjoy and what they love to experience.” The idea is for you to overcome or to build a bridge between the sales carriage and the journey carriage. The way we do it is with an expectations meeting. The moment we've taken a person on board, we have an expectation meeting with them. We say to them, “You've been on this train with us now. We've built a relationship over time. You came to trust us. Tell us what your expectations are of this journey. Tell us what’s the types of things you would like to see happening over the next three months. Tell us what you're excited about. Tell us what you told your spouse that you’re worried about. Tell us what you shy to ask us. I know there's a question there. There is no such thing as a silly question. Tell us the type of things that your family and friends attacked you with the moment you made this investment?”
“What can we do to make sure that you won't be ridiculed in front of your family and friends making this decision? Let's talk about communication. Let's talk about the way you might like to communicate. Let's talk about the way I like to communicate. Let's talk about our expectations of you. What do we need to do for you to rave about us by this time when your renewal comes up? What do I have to do in order for you to go and buy this product again? What do I have to do in order for you to tell your friends this is the best spend of money I’ve ever had in my life?” We have that conversation in the beginning of the carriage. That is pure intelligence to ask because now we know how to continue our relationship with this person and make them feel truly loved.
Dustin
I imagine you got this process nailed. I'm curious about some of the clients you're teaching this process, some of the WealthFit tribe that's going to be watching this course. Is there ever a disconnect between that expectations meeting where that new customer, that new client came up with some weird grandiose expectations, how do you reset or realign or get back on the same page? Do you ever let the client go and say, “We obviously must have miscommunicated, here's your money back?” What do you do in that situation?
Landi
Our belief is that if you've put real time, effort and investment in your trust carriage and love carriage, your system almost becomes bulletproof. Of course, there are always anomalies. There would always be that 1 in 100. In our experience with the Money Train, it rarely happens that a person gets to the point where you have an expectation meeting and there is a huge difference between the value that you offer them and what I thought they were going to get.
Of course, me and Mike's universe, we do mentorship and we coach people. Where expectations sometimes break down is people think they’re going to nail the business intelligence, but then the good old mind with its limited beliefs, that seems to come in. That doesn't have anything to do with, we sold them something and they got something different than they bought into. That's more where the breakdown of old beliefs, old neurological pathways and old habits start happening. We address that even in our expectation meeting. We foresee these things. We're trying to be two or three steps ahead. We tell people already in the expectation meeting, “In your third or fourth session with us, you're going to experience a breakdown in belief systems. You're going to question yourself and the world. Be prepared.” When that point comes, we, in a gentle way, say, “We are here now.” We foresee these things.
What the Money Train does, which is fascinating, is to help you to intimately connect with a person before you even think of sales. I make it sound like every person who's a lead ends up in the trust carriage, and everyone who is in the trust carriage ends up in love and in sales and journey but it's not the way. This is a filter system. Many of them in the lead carriage fall out and get replaced. Many in the trust process fall out and get replaced, the same with love. By the time you get to the sales, you have a qualified, refined person that you already have a good relationship with. The channel of communication is open.
Dustin
Let's say I become good at the Money Train system and the business is growing, life is good and I've recognized maybe I shouldn't be in sales 100% of the time. I want to grow. How do you take this methodology, this process and outsource or bring in team members or automate this process?
Landi
What we encourage entrepreneurs to do, especially because there's so much information out there on what you should automate and not automate. The dream is sold to entrepreneurs that you can have a business where you sleep in every single day and miraculously things will fall out of the air. Both me and you know, Dustin, it's not the way things work. You can practice, you can exercise and you can refine to the point where there are many of these things working for you as opposed to you working for it. We encourage entrepreneurs to automate the lead carriage, the sales carriage and the journey carriage first.
If you want to automate or focus lead first, once you know what an ideal lead looks like, you can automate that system. You can employ a person to try and find those leads for you or you can program a software to identify it for you. You can buy into a Software as a Service to do that for you or you can partner with a company. There are so many ways, but you can automate that process. The way you do it is you map out the process. You decide whether this process is going to be handed over to an individual or software, whatever resources you have available to you.
When it comes to the sales carriage, you can automate that as well. You can get yourself a sales team. You can train salespeople. You can partner with companies who can do that for you. You can find business partners who do not want to do the relationship part but would rather want to do the sales part. There are many ways for you to automate the sales part, but I do not encourage you to do it unless you get it right first. This is your business. It's not the automating agent, whatever that might be. It's not their business, it's yours. Instructions need to come from you. Instruction shouldn't be coming from your outsourcing agents or your vendors, suppliers or your software. You’re the master of your business.
The third carriage we encourage people to automate is the journey carriage. There's a lot of the client experience. Once you've done it over and over again, that can be automated and be delivered by someone else. That can be fulfilled by a software or online course. What entrepreneurs do is they're going to automate the trust and the love part. That's where it gets dangerous. You don't want to do that. You want to stay in that as long as possible, and then when you come back to me later and you say, “Now I'm ready for scaling.”
The first thing that I will assess is how successful you've been able to automate your lead carriage, your sales carriage, and your journey carriage. I'll also assess how far are you with the automation of the trust and love. Meaning you've created a license, an intellectual property, a blueprint or a way for what you have done. There's enough essence in that for it to be duplicated. Only then are you at the point where you can start scaling.
Dustin
I'm excited for people to get inside the Money Train and check it out because this is the end of our production journey. Landi, before we conclude here, your courses are at WealthFit. You're traveling the globe and you're doing events. You've got a book that's coming out, a movie, a documentary in the works. What are you most excited about?
Landi
There's so much happening in our lives and I'm constantly creating space for myself to reflect on what's happening because if you don't do that, it happens and you get hedonistic. You get to think that this is the way life is as opposed to standing still and looking at it and appreciating it. What I'm looking forward to is meeting more amazing people like yourself, Dustin, and your team. We've had the most incredible, professional, rich experience with you guys. I want to thank you for that. It's a big reason why we do what we do because, in this process, we meet like-minded people.
I'm looking forward to meeting more like-minded people. I'm looking forward to writing more. I’m looking forward to getting deeper into what I call the university of the world, which is travel. Traveling is probably my ultimate master. In the process, as we travel, I learn more about the planet and I learn a lot about animals. I learn about their skills and behavior. I'm looking forward to getting more of that into an encyclopedia of animal behavior that I’m building. Encyclopedia of lots of things that's on this planet that provides us with intelligence that is masters and teachers to us, that other people do not have access to. The more I get to these teachings, and the more I package and organize it in a way that makes sense to me, the more that gets translated into our business intelligence to make business easier for other people. That's why we do what we do.
Dustin
I love what you and Mike are up to in the world. I love following your travels and being mentored by you and learning from the intelligence and wisdom that you guys give. I'm excited for people to get a taste of that at WealthFit. They can check out your courses when they come out. For people that want to keep tabs, maybe continue the conversation with you and see what country are they in, where's the best place for people to continue that conversation?
Landi
I've not been on email for years, Dustin. I’ve blocked that out of my universe. I've decided to remove that from my life and it's probably one of the best decisions I've ever made. I am on LinkedIn. I do communicate on there. It's probably advisable that a person find us there. Start a conversation, maybe come to one of our masterminds. We fly around the world, so we're relatively accessible in most of the continents. We prefer people to come and give us the opportunity to meet them, look them in the eye. I’m Landi Jac on LinkedIn and Mike is Mike Handcock.
Dustin
I appreciate you making the time for us, flying all the way here, creating courses with us, doing this and being you and for what you're up to in the world.
Landi
The privilege is ours. Thank you, Dustin.

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