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Perfecting The Art Of Direct Response Copywriting with Mara Glazer

You're going to hear from a very good friend of mine, Mara Glazer, who is the world's best female direct response copywriter, also known as the Direct Response Copy Girl.

You're going to learn about being more influential in print, in emails, in video sales letter, even in person. We invest the time to talk about words that sell and the power of copywriting. Mara has been behind some of the very special launches that have taken place both online and offline.

What I like and appreciate about Mara is that she knows how to motivate people to take action through the power of written words, email words or scripts that are written. She also understands what it's like to do it in front of the masses and do it from a stage. That's an incredibly powerful insight.

Whether or not you desire to be a copywriter or you're an entrepreneur with an idea who wants to understand how can I become more persuasive, more influential through the power of communication? You are going to benefit big time from this.

Dustin
Mara, you've got a titanium rod and a cage in your back. That's not the end of it. You get a job. It's your dream job. You work and you do the grind. Despite everything that you've been through up until this point, you feel this tear. You feel the pain. You've got to figure it out and the doctors don't know what's going on. How did you get yourself out of the situation? How did you get yourself to this point where you could function as a regular everyday person?
Mara
At that moment I remembered something my dad taught me, which is Glazers never give up. I kept moving forward and went to doctor after doctor until someone could finally figure out what had happened that I tore my spine from the pressure and stress of my job and having these rods at my back at the same time. Once we got that sorted, I realized that I needed to make a change in my life. I couldn't be an employee anymore because I needed to take time off when I needed to. That's where I started my entrepreneurial journey from there.
Dustin
Explain the job to me that would lead to a rip in your spine. What were you doing?
Mara
I was working in New York City in the fashion industry. If you've ever seen the movie The Devil Wears Prada, that was like my life. That might be a little bit of an exaggerated version, but I was living in a town where I knew nobody. My salary was less than my rent. My boss was a total nightmare. You mix that all together with these late-night meetings that they made me go to until 3 AM or 4 AM every single night and then I had to be at work again in about 7:30. Enough was enough. That's how it all happened.
Dustin
You’ve got health reasons and that sounds like a crazy environment. You decide, “I need to change my walk of life.” Where do you go next? What do you do?
Mara
What I did next is I ended up approaching my dad. His name is Bill Glazer. I asked him if I could move back to Baltimore and join the family business that he started called Glazer-Kennedy Insider Circle. I knew that if I could have some flexibility and freedom in my schedule if this were to happen again, I would at least be okay from a financial position and not have to worry about my job or getting fired or something like that. I approached my dad and asked him if I could move back to Baltimore and join the family business, and he said no. I asked him again and he said no again. At that moment, I remembered the saying my father taught me which is, “Glazers never give up.”I asked him a third time and he said to me, "Mara, if you want this, if you want to move back to Baltimore and join the family business, you need to earn it."
I spent about six months while I was still working in my miserable fashion industry job. I had also gotten to this point where I started this little image consulting business for men to attempt to pay my bills. I have maybe one or two clients at the time. I was doing everything my father asked me to do. I was writing marketing plans, proposals, copy, whatever he asked me to do I would do because that's how bad I wanted it. About six months of that went by and he called me up again and he said, "Mara, if you want to move back to Baltimore and join the family business, you need to understand two things. One is that you will be working harder than you've ever worked in your entire life."
He definitely worked me like a dog. Even in the years after he sold the business and I wasn't working with him anymore, he still worked me like a dog. Now we're working together a little bit again, which is great and he's working me like a dog again. He also told me, "You'll be heading up the social and alternative media marketing department." I didn't want to tell him at the time, but I had no idea what that was. I only use social media for two things at that time, which was inviting my friends to my parties and then posting the drunk party pictures on Facebook the next day. That's all I knew how to do. I came on. I joined the family business. I literally inhaled everything I could get my hands on about making money with social media. We implemented it, tested it, and tracked it. I earned my spot there at the business. We did $1 million in sales tracked back to social media in less than 278 days.
Dustin
I want to go a little deeper into this, "You're going to work harder than you've ever worked before." Growing up, your dad was in a different business. Did you know the work ethic? You had to have seen it what you're getting yourself into?
Mara
Most of my memories of my father are either me working with him in his store. I started working with him in the store at the age of about four or five years old or him coming home after having worked a twelve-hour plus day and then getting back on the computer. There was this card table in our living room. He would sit there until the wee hours of the night doing more work. That's how I think of my dad when I think of my childhood.
Dustin
Is it ingrained in you? Do you carry that forward naturally because you've lived it? Are you naturally looking at your father that way?
Mara
I would probably be the second person to outwork anyone in this world. It's so natural to me. It's how I am. It doesn't bother me. It doesn't faze me. A lot of times I enjoy it, so yes.
Dustin
You're there and you're doing social media. At some point, you start to understand the power of copywriting. Walk me through what were some of the things that you were doing to get good at copywriting and putting words on paper or in social media to get people these things?
Mara
There was one way that I learned how to write. It was by doing it and then having my dad critique it. My dad one day walked into my office and he said, "We need some help around here with copywriting and you're the obvious choice." I said, "Okay." He gives me a project and I take an attempt at this project. When I'm done, I printed it out. I walk down to his office. I sit down at his conference room table in his office and he pulls out a red pen. We sit there for about 30 minutes going through every line of copy that I had written. He marks it all up with the red pen. He sent me back to my office. I made all the changes. I came back to his office again and he pulls out his red pen again. Over and over again, we did that for about a year. Until one day, I finally had written something that I brought to his office and he didn't make any changes. He told me that I was good to go on my own. That's how I learned just this red pen copy critique as I've called it. I have like PTSD over red pencil.
Dustin
I'm going to say it brings back memories of childhood.
Mara
That's how I learned. That's the best way to learn. There are a lot of great copy courses out there. There are books. There are all sorts of stuff like that. There's no better way to learn than do it. That's how he taught me.
Dustin
I'm curious to understand your take on as the whole voice thing. You had a mentor there that was redlining. Was it his voice versus your voice? This is a question that comes up for a lot of people. What's your take on that?
Mara
What I was writing, for the most part, there were campaigns that were in his voice because they were supposed to be coming from him. I had to get good at that but because I have spent so much time with him that was easy for me to do. I do think that if someone is mentoring you in copyright and you do pick up on a lot of the things that they do or a lot of their voice naturally. I write a lot of copy for my dad now that he's had his stroke. I write it all in his voice and it's normal for me. It's how I write my emails to my community as well. That's not always the best thing because let's say you're not writing for yourself and it's not as natural for you. You need to figure out how it is that you're going to get into the mind of the person that you are writing for.
For me, I do write like my dad. That a lot of people who get mentored very hands-on a copy do end up writing a lot like the person that taught them because that's how they were taught. It's almost like a whole other skill in and of itself to figure out how to write in someone else's voice. It’s an amazing way to get to get better at writing copy. It might be Dan Kennedy who has sat down and rewritten, handwritten all sorts of sales letters and whatnot in order to pick up other people's voices and tones and get good at that. I interviewed another copywriter to come on to my agency who has handwritten over 100 sales letters so that he could learn and pick up other people's voices and that skills. I do think that you'll pick up whoever mentors you his voice, but there's also room for you to create your own.
Dustin
We have a lot of entrepreneurs who will be reading. Before they hire a copywriter, they should understand at least at a high level like what the points are, so they can identify, “This person I hired, are they any good?” Do you agree with that statement?
Mara
If you don't know what you're looking for, at least, the basics, you could end up with somebody who is writing any or all of your campaigns and isn't the best fit. It's not that hard to do. Go get a great book about copywriting. Go take a course about copywriting. Go watch YouTube videos about copywriting. I do think that whatever position you hire for, it is like a great thing to do to generally understand what that person will be doing and get a good grasp of what a good job is or not.
Dustin
What would you say to somebody who wants to get good at it? Whether it's the entrepreneur themselves who wants to get good at it or somebody who is going to do this full-time for a living or maybe as a freelancer What are your tips for getting good? You mentioned rewriting sales letters. What are some of the strategies?
Mara
I'll go back to what I said before, which is the best way to learn how to write sales copy especially direct response sales copy is to do it then to have somebody critique it. I would recommend going and finding that person. That doesn't necessarily even have to be somebody who is a copywriting guru. Imagine what would happen to your sales for a moment if you had one of your best customers or clients go through it and tell you what they liked about it and what they didn't like about it. That's another option too. My recommendation would be to put some things together, start creating some emails, sales pages, video scripts and all that type of stuff. Find someone to critique it for you and sit down with you to help you go through it.
Another suggestion that I would have is to find a book that you resonate with or find a course that you resonate with to help you do that. I mostly learned from my dad so I don't particularly have many course recommendations. I've gone through a few, but I've mostly adopted a lot of his practices and principles. I know that there are a lot out there. You’ve got to find one that feels right, and I would consider what your voice is going to be if you were going to be writing for yourself or I would consider what the voice is going to be if you're going to be writing for clients. You want to particularly write in the female market, in the women's market. We do a lot of writing in that market. I would recommend maybe finding a course taught by a female copywriter. If you know that you're going to be writing in the make money space, I would maybe find someone with an expertise in that space. There are so many options out there.
Dustin
I want to understand that the translation of when you sit down to write an email or even you were doing it old school and were putting together a print sales letter, talk about how copywriting and words that sell, talk about how that translates to video, talk about how it translates to other media. Is it straight up? How you write for one and you can do it for all or are there nuances and tweaks that you do?
Mara
Depending upon what you're going to be writing, there is usually a different format for each piece. The one thing that needs to be consistent between whether you're writing a video, an email, direct response, or direct mail campaign, is that you've got to be able to talk to your audience in a way that is engaging. I like to say as if they are your friends. If you can get good at that, if you mess up the format or the formula a little bit, it works itself out. It's your saving grace and you're going to be okay. You can nail that just talking to your audience as if they were your friends. That's the best thing that you can do because think about it. How many emails do you get every single day? If you think about all the emails that you get every single day, chances are if you're like most people, you probably open the ones from your wife, your mom, or your friends before any of the other ones.
If you can create that relationship in the way that you talk to your audience or if you're writing for somebody else in the way that you talk to them, you're going to start to create that friendly type of engagement where people want to watch your videos, watch your webinars, read your sales pages, and read your emails. What I would suggest considering is finding that one person who is your friend who would also be a great ideal client for either whatever you're writing about for yourself or for somebody else, and then write those pieces as if you're writing to them. Even if you mess up the flow a little bit or the formula or the format, not that there's a perfect formula or format anyway. You're still going to create connection and that's what you want to do. Connection, engagement and ideally get somebody to take you up on your call to action.
Dustin
I know from doing this you have a conversation with people. You don't have to be slick or polished or have umpteen years behind you if you call somebody a natural-born salesperson. If you can do that in writing, you could break all the rules essentially. I'm with you on that. As to your transition or when you move into speaking, how much of copywriting do you and did you take into speaking from the stage?
Mara
You help me with that. You're one of my mentors in that. I scripted out my talks and still do. Much of it was from my copywriting skills mixed with a process that was taught to me. I've heard from a lot of people who speak at events and who write webinars and things like this, to me that's all speaking like how it's so hard for them to deal. It was very natural for me because I already had that skill of copywriting. I plugged it into what was working for you and for the others that taught me. It all comes down to being able to sell. If you can do that in writing, you can do that by speaking it. If you can do that by speaking it, if you put your mind to it, you can do it by writing. One of the things I've given you credit for Dustin is you taught me how to sell on a platform and on a stage. I'll never forget that moment when I had my first table rush. I was like, "This is amazing. This is what financial freedom is because I never need to count on anybody else to make money ever again." To tie that back to copywriting, it's because I was able to take what I learned about speaking and take what I knew about copywriting and blend them together, so 100% it all relates.
Dustin
What's your take on sales? You mentioned copyrighting, words on paper, email that you see and then you move into speaking. What about when you're one-on-one? How does that work, your copywriting background? Do you script that call or that process as much as you can? What's your take on this blend between marketing, words that sell versus active like salesmanship or saleswomanship?
Mara
I personally don't script any of my sales conversations. It doesn't feel natural to me to have a one-on-one type of conversation scripted. I do know that some people do that. If they feel like that works for them then that's awesome. For me, it doesn't feel like me. The one thing that I've taken from my copywriting that I've applied to sales is understanding how to overcome objections or understanding how to answer people's questions in a better way. Once you've done that in your writing, you're writing a sales page for a program but that you get on the phone to sell it to somebody, all of that work you did in writing that offers out and writing that sales page out. You remember that it becomes part of your memory in a way. When you have that conversation, you can pull from those memories of what you created in your sales pieces to be able to speak to that when it comes up in the sales conversation.
They are related but I'm not one to script it because it wouldn't be authentic to who I am. It's a little bit different when you're in front of a whole room speaking per se because you're not having that one-on-one conversation. There are so many different objections that different people can have or so many different questions that can come up for different people. When you're in a big room and a big audience, you need to take into account what the majority of those are going to be and speak to them why you're on stage. When you're one-on-one, you only need to speak to the ones who are coming up for that one person. That was the long way of saying that I do think that it's helpful to have copywriting skills in order to be able to sell over the phone or in a one-on-one face to face setting, but I don't do scripts because it doesn't feel right.
Dustin
What is the weirdest or most unique thing that you've ever had to sell obviously via copywriting or even on a stage? What would you say that is or for a client?
Mara
A product that I'm working on right now. There is this somewhat new device. It's called a menstrual cup. It's a product that is better for the body and also better for the environment compared to tampons or sanitary napkins. It made a craze in the world especially because some are cost effective. You can reuse them for ten years. They don't have a lot of the chemicals in them that tampons do. This is a product that I've been working on the marketing for a client. It's their version of it. Their take of it. That is hands down one of the weirdest or most bizarre products that I've ever created a copy about.
Dustin
It's a first. I'm glad you're the first one to take us there. If you can sell that then the power of copywriting you can sell a lot of things. When you work with the client, what are some of the things that you create? In this case, are you creating a script for a video sales? Are you creating an email sequence? What are all the assets that are coming together to sell something?
Mara
Most of the people that we write for, about 80% of our work are emails, direct response emails. I would say another 15% are sales pages. The last 5% is a variety of different things from video scripts, advertorials. I've been doing a lot of advertorials lately.
Dustin
Will you break that down for those who are getting used to some of these terms advertorial and also would love for you to define direct response?
Mara
Advertorial is an article that appears to be somewhat of a content piece but has a call to action in it. Someone who's reading it feels like they're reading something interesting, compelling, and educational. That is intriguing to them. By the time they get to the bottom of that, they are presented with a buying decision and a lot of facts to hopefully persuade them to buy. That's how I would explain an advertorial. We do online advertorials. There are also advertorials that you might see in a newspaper or a magazine, a little more old school. Personally, we don't write any of those. We've been doing a lot more of the online ones. The way I explain direct response copywriting is anything that's written with the purpose of selling. It’s something that makes a call to action to go ahead and buy the thing compared.
Compare that to like a lot of the content you see online. You could go on Facebook or Instagram and you can see a lot of I call them fluffy posts. They're inspirational, motivational, and interesting things to read, but then they end and they don't go anywhere. That's not direct response. Direct response is the opposite. It's combining some of those content principles with making a call to action to get someone to open up their wallet, take out their credit card, and make a decision about buying.
Dustin
Every email that you're writing, should it have a call to action?
Mara
I do think so and here is why. It doesn't always have to be a buying opportunity, though that tends to be what we do. If you don't have anything to sell, I would still make a call to action to do something so that you can start to train your community to take action when you do present them with that buying opportunity. While it would be best to push someone towards making a sale if you're in business. If you're not ready for that, you're reading this and you're newer, or you maybe slammed your last with a whole bunch of offers, you're like, "Give them a break for a minute." There are other ways that you can invite them to take an action so that you can keep them in that behavior of saying yes when you do make offers, but more so than not you should be making offers for sure. You're in business. There are probably a lot of reasons you decided to get into the business. One of them is because you want to make money, so you need to make offers to people in order to do that.
Dustin
Take us back to your first client outside your dad. Take us back to that first client, what you wrote, how did you get that client? I want to inspire people who are looking for a side hustle to maybe study up on copywriting and go out there and search for clients. Can you think back to that first one for us?
Mara
Here's how I got my first copywriting client. I got invited to speak at a very small event. There were 25 people. This was before I knew what I was doing was speaking. I can't believe this worked out. Caught on stage and at the time I was talking about social media. I was talking about how we made so much money and my dad's business with social media. At the end of that, the women who put on the event said like, "Who here would like Mara to teach them how to do social media?" All these hands go up and she goes, "Mara, how about you offer a VIP day? Spend a whole day with whoever wants to do it one-on-one and you charge $10,000." I was like, "Okay." She goes, "Who here wants to do it?" Eight people's hands went up and they signed for it.
A few other people heard about it and they emailed me and asked if they could do it too. I have found a good amount of these how I raise the capital and start my business. One of them particularly asked me if I would write her copy for her after we did our day together. I sold my first copywriting package from that. I'll never forget it was $11,000 package for a whole bunch of emails. At the time, I didn't even know that I could do that. She said, "Yes." It was amazing to me. That was my first client. She was teaching women about the financial health and how to get wealthy like you guys. That's how it happened.
Dustin
When I got started a very similar situation, small group, it was a mastermind, which you'll find interesting. They were all speakers like born assassins to sell from the stage. Here I was, young Dustin with no speaking experience at the time going into making an offer at this group. They all knew what I was doing as I was doing it and it was bad. People bought because at the end of the day I saw what the problem was. It was here are all these speakers that make a living selling from the stage. Yet they never provide the promoter with any marketing materials to get people excited to show up, to get them excited for their session. When I got started, I wish I had gone your route. I was selling a website. I charge $2,000. I had to give 50% to the promoter so it was $1,000. It wasn't just a website, Mara. I physically wrote a four-page sales letter, a six-step email sequence, their bio, and at least three other pieces of copy offer a $1,000. I had to build the website. It was totally a lot of work for $1,000.
Mara
I've had other similar experience after that. I've had high highs and low lows.
Dustin
For entrepreneurs out there, Mara, that is saying, "I get the power of direct response. I understand what it means now. If I don't have to pick up that phone and I can have words in print or a video do it. I like this idea, but I'm not going to do it myself. I don't have the time, or I don't feel like I could be the writer." What are some tips for finding good copywriters? You're doing that right now to grow the agency. What are you looking for or what do you suggest entrepreneurs, business owners look for to bring someone on full-time or even maybe little freelance projects? What would you say?
Mara
I’m hiring copywriters for our agency. I put them through a vetting process to make sure that they are the best. What that looks like is reading through their samples that I asked them to send me. I also put them through a very somewhat challenging process of sending the samples to me. They have to use a very specific subject line and they have to follow very specific instructions because I want to make sure that they follow instructions. The third thing I do is once they pass all of that, I talk to them. If I like their personality and feel like I would maybe want to work with them, I hire them to do a test project because they could send me the best samples in the world, but if that work can't translate to what it is that we do here then it's not the right thing. That's the fourth thing I do. I hire them to do a task project for me. I give them the parameters of the project. I pay my copywriters who come on staff for the test projects that they do. That's the right thing to do.
From there, I know if they're going to be a good fit or not a good fit. I also pay attention to the metrics. If my clients start running a campaign and it's not going well like I know that there's a problem with part of the copy, it's one of the pieces. I ask my clients about the metrics. I have conversations with my copywriters about the metrics. Those are things that you want to be paying attention to if you're going to hire a copywriter. At some part in the interview process, they don't have metrics to share with you about past successful pieces, I would be a little concerned. That would maybe be the golden nugget here is if you are looking at hiring a copywriter to either ask for that or see if they bring it up. I found that the best copywriters bring it up from the beginning. I don't ever have to ask for it. It's presented to me because they are good at selling themselves.
Dustin
If they can do it in print, they should be able to communicate to make the sale as well at least brag about their accomplishments. You were there and helped your father, Bill, sell GKIC to a private equity firm. I'm wondering, Mara, of the lessons you learned that maybe people don't see on the outside or you don't think they're very common. Maybe they're privy to you without obviously asking for confidential stuff unless you're willing to share but no pressure. What do you believe are some of the lessons that you learned to take a business from where it was to the sale because you were there front seat? What would you say some of those lessons were?
Mara
I wasn't involved in the sale. That was something that my parents handled. The company who purchased the family business was in our office for about a year before they purchased it. Where I was involved was letting them shadow me and answering their questions and also sometimes asking them if they had a cool idea that maybe I wasn't thinking about. I wasn't involved in the nitty-gritty of it or anything like that. My advice, however, would be and I've seen this with not just us with others as well who have sold their businesses is if you're going to sell it you need to be okay with the idea that anything can change in the business. You've got no say about it. It's going to be what it is. You've got to be able to let go. That's hard.
When you build a business from the ground up and it's your baby. You're about to hand that baby over to somebody else and you want to see it grow in a certain way. You're not going to be able to say what that is anymore like that can be hard. I've had a lot of friends ask me over the years like, “Should I sell? Should I not sell?” That's what I say to them. I'm like, "If you can let it go without getting upset or being emotionally attached, then let it go. If you can't, maybe now is not the right time."
Dustin
I want to move us into WealthFit Round, which initially is my fancy way of saying rapid-fire questions. What's been your most worthwhile investments?
Mara
The money that I've invested in learning how to sell again for that same reason I mentioned before, which is if you can sell and you can make money independently of anybody else that's when you're financially free. The investments I've made I'm learning how to sell have allowed for me to do that.
Dustin
What's that investment that you don't want to talk about, that misstep in your life or ill-placed investment?
Mara
Real estate, luckily, I've made a profit on all the flips that I've done.
Dustin
Are you talking real estate flips?
Mara
One flip in particular where I should have made like $125,000 profit. I didn't know what I was doing. I made like $7,000.That one hurt.
Dustin
When you're not doing flips like that and life is even better and you're maybe doing flips over $125,000 nature. Life is good. Business is good. What is your guilty spending splurge?
Mara
I can't stop buying it, which is funny because I spend most of my days in my yoga pants and a hoodie. I love buying clothes. The other is I love organic produce and organic foods, healthy foods and supplements. I spend quite a lot of money on that as well.
Dustin
I got a follow-up to that special routine, special rituals that involve along the help lines to get yourself in peak state or maybe to sit down and crank out of sales. Do you have special things that you do besides eating organic foods? What do you do?
Mara
There's this guy called the Medical Medium. He is a medium that gives medical advice. Per his recommendation to the whole wide world, I drink fresh press celery juice sixteen ounces or more of it every morning on an empty stomach. I do that. It's a little bizarre to most people. I like it.
Dustin
What did you notice anything yet or is it too early?
Mara
I've noticed better digestion. I've noticed my skin looks more vibrant. Those are probably the two major things I've noticed. It's good for your gut health. Google it, it's interesting.
Dustin
I'm definitely in this conversation. I'm reading Fit for Life
Mara
This is more of a recent thing. I've told you I took Facebook off my phone. I took Instagram off my phone. I took my email off my phone. I noticed that so much of the time in my life was consumed with this unimportant stuff that I was looking at on my phone or on social media. I’ve been saying no to that and it's hard sometimes. Sometimes I want to put it back on my phone like if I'm bored for a minute and I'm like, "I want to see what people are doing." I had to say no to that and I only use them on the computer.
Dustin
Fear and self-doubt stop a lot of people. I feel it. We've interviewed a lot of successful people and they still get fear despite people thinking they're not human or they're better than that. We've identified fear and self-doubt. They creep up in new areas of our life. When you identify anxiety, fear, second-guessing yourself, what do you do to get yourself back on track or get yourself still moving forward?
Mara
Remind myself of the previous moments where I had a similar fear or doubt or where I was second-guessing myself, where I did move forward, and it ended up being a positive experience. Hands down, that is it. I'm going to leave it at that. That's probably been the best most helpful strategy I've used.
Dustin
Looking back over your life, what would you say your biggest defining moment is? Let me define defining moment. When I mean that it's like you looking back, you were at that juncture in your life. You made a decision. You could have gone one way or the other and so now looking back you say that radically alter the path of my career.
Mara
What I'm about to type was both for my career and my life, which is when I literally got rid of all my belongings for the most part and got on a train with my car and took it down to Florida and lived in Airbnbs for a while. Once you were a part of that as part of the reason I moved down there is because when I first came to Florida to see you and to visit with you at your office, I was like, "I want to move here one day." I did. That was such a defining moment for both me professionally and personally because the fact that I did that and was willing to follow through with it gave me so much confidence in my personal life that led into and leaped into my professional life. It’s the fact that I followed through on something that I said I was going to do. It’s the fact that I did it and was successful at it, and the fact that I honestly enjoyed it made me more a confident human. It's important to be confident in your business too. It went together.
Dustin
What pushed you over the edge to do it? You saw Florida and you were like, "This is cool. I like it." You'd said it a few times. What pushed you over the edge to say, "I'm doing this now?"
Mara
I was living in Baltimore. I was feeling stuck. Everything was okay. My family is there and they're amazing. I have friends there that were amazing. I was doing well in my career. I felt like I was stuck. Almost like the energy was stuck and if I was going to stay there, I wasn't going to be able to move to the next place in my life that I wanted to. For a few years, I felt that way. Every year that my lease was about to come up with my apartment where I was thinking about moving, I would meet a new boy and I would fall in love. I would stay. There was one year where I was like enough is enough. I don't care who I'm dating. It doesn't matter. I am moving. That's what I did.
Dustin
Having moved to San Diego, I remember being there for you and sharing, but now having gone through it myself, I can't believe I'm hearing you get the benefit of the other side of it. Kudos to you for doing it. I got it.
Mara
We're neighbors now. I'm following you around the country.
Dustin
Who knew? Maybe I'm following you. Mara, I totally appreciate you. Thanks for being on the show. I could sit here and speak to you for hours and pick your brain and tell stories. For those who are very interested in this conversation, it's the first time that we've talked about marketing on the show at a great length especially asking words that site copyrighting and being persuasive. Where can folks keep up tabs with you and what you're up to?
Mara
Go to the website, DirectResponseCopyGirl.com. That's the best way to get in touch with me or my email,Mara.Glazer@Gmail.com. Either one is great. Thanks, Dustin.
Dustin
Thanks, Mara. I appreciate you being on the show.

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