Share This Episode

Rene Kamstra: Reading People, The Power of Listening & Winning an Emmy

On this episode, we are talking to Rene Kamstra. She is one of the world's top speakers and business coaches focusing on personal development, corporate growth and leadership for entrepreneurs and corporate executives. She has helped her clients achieve phenomenal success and one of those accepted $1 million offer on Shark Tank. Rene is also a great friend of mine and is the reason why I am here.

I'm excited for you to hear this special episode. If you're curious of about what's going on, about reading people, the power of listening, winning an Emmy and tapping into understanding people's body language. This is one of my new favorite shows and I can't wait for you to read it. With that said, let's get to it.

Your Financial Breakthrough Starts Here

Create a free WealthFit account and get instant access to …

A Powerful “Wealth-Building 101” Course

A Personalized Content Experience

A 21,000+ Member Global Community!

Get Started Now
Dustin
We have an incredible episode. We are sitting here with a woman that has changed my life. I wouldn't be here if it weren't for her kicking me in the butt to motivate me and get me to do the things that I want to do and get to that next level. I thought, “What a treat would it be to have her here to motivate all of us and give us some insights into body language and to communication and the power of listening.” Her name is
Rene
I fly in from El Paso, Texas and from here, I'm going to Arizona and then I'm going to go to Colorado.
Dustin
Not a lot of people know this about you or at least I don't hear a lot of people talk about this with you. You had this amazing opportunity to perform and to sing with the queen of soul Aretha Franklin and Cissy Houston. This performance led to an Emmy. I want you to take us back to that point of your life. What was it like to perform with this group and those incredible women?
Rene
The story started before that. I want you to know that I've been in an unbelievable depression before that. What was very interesting is my best friend found me with my two children in the car in the process of committing suicide. She had this inkling that she needed to go to my home and luckily found us. Once that happened, she said to me, “Rene, I have to introduce you to my priest.” I'm not Catholic, but she had to introduce me. I went there and he was saying to me, “Rene, what do you love to do most?” I'm like, “I love to sing.” I can read sheet music and I can hear the pitch because I have a perfect pitch. I can sing anything. A few weeks later, he phoned me and he said, “Rene, our singer passed away. Can you do this because we need somebody?” At that point, he invited me to go to Italy where we sang for Pope John Paul. When I came back, that same friend said to me, “Rene, I feel you have to go to this audition. It was a seven-hour time difference.” I'm tired and I’m like, “What do I need to do?” I'm like, “If I can get a piano player for tonight, I'll go otherwise, no.”
The first piano player I called plays in Lincoln Center and she said yes. I went and I auditioned. Cissy Houston was there. What I didn't know at that point is that her stepdaughter was my children's babysitter. It's crazy. I was accepted to sing with them, but I sang classical songs. I came in with the Ave Maria not knowing what gospel singing was. Coming from South Africa, gospel to me meant church music. I came with Ave Maria and they're like, “This is beautiful, but can you go up and down?” I’m like, “Sure. Tell me when you want me to go up or down.” Then they asked me, “Can you sing something like Amazing Grace?” I'm like, “Yes, but you'll have to shoot me the words because I don't know the English words.” That's how I got in. Eventually, when we won the Emmy Award, I was one of the people that were able to speak and thank. The great thing was I was on stage and I was saying, “I'm the only real African-American in the group and also being the only white one.” It was an amazing experience. Imagine Mahalia Jackson sang with us. It’s an album with all these amazing phenomenal people. It was one of those things that are once in a lifetime because coming from South Africa, it was my people. I felt so at home.
Dustin
We've started to cover addiction, recovery and you had mentioned suicide. I don't want to put the wet blanket on, but I do want to give it some service. You're in that situation with your kids and then a few weeks later, this whole thing starts to take off. That's crazy in life. Sometimes you feel that you're at your darkest moment and on the other side of that is things that you wouldn't even think possible. How did you find yourself in that situation? I know this fuels your passion and we'll get into that, but how did you come to find yourself in that situation where you didn't see a way out?
Rene
When you are in a place like that, it is so emotional. What most people don't realize is that there's so much going on in your brain all the time. That is a repetitious thing. When you feel everything is dark around you, that's all you hear because your brain never stops. It is the power of becoming very present that can change that, but you don't know or feel that at that moment. I always tell people that when they’re on that space, there are certain questions to ask yourself. One of that is, “In this very moment, is it life or death? If I could do anything differently, what is it that could put me one step closer to anything else?” If you go down the same rabbit hole of the same questions, you will never find the answer. At that moment, if you can get to a place where you change your body, it's very funny when you are in this place and you like this. There's no way out. If you sit up straight and you force yourself to smile, it is impossible for your body to stay in that space.
That's what that priest did for me. He was asking me, “What is the one thing I love to do most?” It had to take me out of that field of the same thing playing over in my mind. All I needed was a “what” question and not a “why” question. That is incredibly important. I cannot tell you, most people are advocating that you always have to look at the “why.” Yes, you have to look at your “why” about what do you want to do in this world, but if you want to get out of any situation asking a “why” question or if any of your team members has a problem and you go to them and you are like, “Why did you do this?” It's an attack. It's either an attack on them or if you are like, “Why is this happening to me?” It is totally bringing you in that circle of self-negative and talking you down. I have changed that to, “What is it that I can do to move forward one step?” It takes one step to take us to a whole different trajectory. He took me, I went to sing, somebody died and I sang. That took me to the Vatican. That took me to win an Emmy. That took me to sit with you, who I so admire. I always told you that there's something so special about you because you care. Without caring, what is life?
Dustin
I am so fascinated by that moment in your life and what you're up to and the information you have to share. However, I want to ask this about your child at two because I've never asked this. Your dad early on is a big influence. Your dad is a high profile businessman. He takes you around and puts you in meetings with CEOs. Now, you could say like, “It's more palatable.” In South Africa, I got to imagine that was bold for him to do that. What was it like? Where some of these CEOs and VPs and whatnot receptive to this at first?
Rene
Think about this, here you have a businessman that has quite a few million dollars with you in a bank. Are you going to show him that you are not receptive to his daughter being in a meeting? I was six years old and there are these five different banks’ CEOs in the room. They would talk business and if I had something to say, they would all keep quiet and my dad too, so I could say what I think. The magic thing about that was that dad made me realize that I can speak to anybody in this world. There was never a question like, “Can I speak to that biggest CEO? Can I work with Bill Gates?” I worked with Apple. I was a very direct channel of communication between Apple and some of the other industries that were in movies when they came out with a streaming movie. One of the reasons was that I had no problems with that, but I also had no problem knowing that sometimes you've got to do whatever it takes.
I’ll tell you how I got into Apple. I read that they were going to do this streaming movie and I wanted to work at this company. Let's face it, they are amazing and I wanted to get into the boardroom. What I read is that one of the four boardroom members was going to be the director on the very first streaming movie. I took six months sabbatical. I went to New York City. I paved my way in there. I told them I would help whatever it took and I am good at communication. They’re like, “Why would we want to hire you for communication? We don't need that.” I'm like, “You have no idea what you need. I'll do it for free, but I'll be here.” They didn't because two days later, they promoted me to a good thing and I got a movie part. I got to know him because he was the director. He started to get to know that my specialty is communication. Long story short, that's how I got into that boardroom to work with other things because I already had clients in Summit Entertainment and in MGM. It was such a perfect fit but I played a madam role so I had this flimsy little pajama on. I did it because it's doing whatever it takes.
Dustin
You could have had a career singing. You could have stayed in the movie business, but you’re a communications expert. Do you go with the flow or do you have these things like, “I want to go do that?” Then you go do it and then you're done and then you want to try something else. How do you know where you're going?
Rene
This is a different story. I won a scholarship to the Vienna Opera House. At that same time, I got meningitis and encephalitis. Within a year period, I was four months in the hospital. I had no feeling in my legs or whatsoever so I could not walk. We thought I was going to be forever in a wheelchair. That was one of the things that helped me from going forward with that. Then I met my husband and that was the end of the story. That was where I was going to go, but that didn't take me away from loving the stage and understanding what communication is about because communication is only 7% words. It's so much more. It's the energy and it is the body language and the intonation. That's all part of singing. In a way, I'm still singing. In a way, I'm still presenting. I am just doing it on a different platform and right now, I am not alone on a stage going back to my hotel. I will be alone every now and then, but the other thing is I will also many times get to speak to wonderful people like yourself.
Dustin
You’re recognized as a communications expert and someone might say, “That means you're great with words.” You quoted that Stanford study where communication is only 7% of the words that we say. What makes up communication? Break this down and take us further down, how we can be better here?
Rene
Let’s say you’re going to do sales. Most people when they do sales, they would come in and they greet. They’re like, “It’s very nice to meet you.” However, doing that with a smile doesn't build the rapport immediately. Imagine I'm coming to you and I'm like, “I'm so happy to meet you and I'm excited to show you something.” The key to this was something that you did when I walked into that door and that is you arch your eyes for a second. This little movement made me feel welcome. It made me feel that I can trust you. I will build that rapport within 30 seconds where somebody else has to do all this communication to build the same rapport.
Dustin
What if I hadn't raised my eyes? Do you change tact to build that rapport like, “I’ve got to work a little harder?” What do you do?
Rene
You and I know each other. Unless we didn't like each other, it would feel weird if I came in here. However, you always want to mirror and match. If somebody is slower or they are looking at you with a face that is like a stone, there will be other places where you can see in the body where they are. Many times they might be interested in a product, but they're not going to show you because they want to see what is the best price. On the other hand, they might be coming up with a totally different agenda than you. If I'm a salesperson, my agenda is to sell you something. If your agenda is, “There's no way I'm buying anything,” there's discord. That is where you now want to come from. Instead of diving into telling them about your product, you’re starting to dive into who are you and what matters to you. It's all about listening. If you don't ask good questions and you don't listen, there is no way for you to put the two together. If you see somebody's body language at that moment like the feet were facing you but all of a sudden, one of the feet starting to face outside, that is telling you they want to be out of here.
Dustin
I am picturing networking at an event. Sometimes you come into these conversations and maybe you're talking too much or the other person is talking too much and looking down to see this. That’s what it pictured for me.
Rene
It's important to observe the whole body. What most people don't realize is there's less body language in the face because many people have learned how to control that than the rest of your body.
Dustin
Can you give us some more? I'm so fascinated by this. What are some other things that we maybe do unconsciously that our body does?
Rene
How we are set up right now, except for the fact that we are a little bit to the side, would block body language. If we had it here, we would be open. Let’s say I want to hire somebody in a place, there's no way I'm going to sit like this. I'm going to have them come and sit. The next moment, I'm going to pull my chair or another chair and ask them to go sit here and then I will be sitting across from them where I can see everything. As I was here, your legs literally moved with me. You are here. Whereas if you do this and somebody’s foot is going out, yours is now moving but it's facing me. I'm still here. If it went the outside, it would be a totally different thing. That's how I look. When I ask the question now, I look at how the body reacts because the lips will always tell me, yes because they want the job. Why are they there? They want the job so they're going to tell me they can do it. If I see for a second that now their feet are moving backward, what that tells me is that they are unsure of what they told me. The body might still be here, but the legs were a telltale.
Dustin
We're talking interviews, what if they're nervous?
Rene
Nervous is always there. Body language is very interesting. It's only the first few split seconds that count because we are going to shake and it's okay. When people say that when you speak to somebody and they look in a different space that they are lying, that's not the truth. Some people need to process a little bit before they come back and look at you. For some people, if you do this in the face and you are one of them, it feels uncomfortable. Some of us need more space than others. What you look at is you don't look at all the bigger things all the time because then you're going to get confused. It is that very split second. When I came in for a split second, your eyebrows went up. It's like, “He's just as happy as I am to see him.” You have the celebrities who have a smile. There's a difference between this or where you get a few crow's feet. The eyes smile with you. That's different.
There's another telltale, which is the nose. When people are nervous or when they are ready to attack, it will flare and it will be a split second. If you see the flare of the nose together with a foot that's going out, you even know which way they're going to run. It's crazy, but it's true. It's fascinating. There's another cool little thing. If you are in lust and you are in this romantic mood, your nose is going to flare too because you're breathing heavy. You want to take more air in. You have to be very careful about how you read these things. If it stays like that, it can either be that you are angry or it can be lust. If it's just a split second where otherwise you don't give anything away, that's when you know something is up. Body language is all about zoning in and seeing everything.
Dustin
It's a misnomer and I want to get some clarity around it. It's the arms crossed thing. Some people say that maybe they're just cold. Arms crossing to me is I want to block what's coming at me. What's the truth here? Is it that they're cold?
Rene
They’re both true. Look at people who are pregnant. I promise you her hands is there are many times. She's putting her hand on this beautiful little baby. When it's cold, you’re going to do this so you have to look at everything in body language within the context of what is going on. If I will tell you one thing, there's never one explanation for anything. It's important that when we look at body language, we go a little bit deeper. It’s important to look at the context and look at what it is they are there for. If I'm going to interrogate you, the context is way different if you do that than when it's cold outside. That's what you have to look for.
Dustin
How can we tell if someone is lying to us? What are some tells around that?
Rene
I can honestly tell you that's the hardest thing to find. I worked for years with FBI specialist and this is what he did. There were thousands of people that he had to interview and interrogate. He was always saying to me that people want to make it that easy, but it's not. One of the stories that he's telling was such an amazing story. It was about this man who was accused of rape and he swore that he didn't do it. When he would ask him the questions about, “What did you do at that point?” We knew that they had contact. He would say, “I would go around the corner left,” but he would point right. That's what gave him away. It took four days of interrogation looking for those details. That's why body language is most likely the best telltale but don't just look for all these old wives tales because they’re not always that accurate.
Dustin
I want to ask you about personality types because this was part of communication and there's this thing floating out there. Rene, I should be me. However, not everyone is like me or like us. Will you speak a little bit to personality types and how this comes into communication? Give us a little flavor of authenticity versus trying to mirror and match Rene so I can build rapport with her. Where's this line exist?
Rene
Personality is very important. If somebody is a notetaker or they are somebody who will process a little slower, if you don't talk to them in a way where they have the time to take the notes or you give them the website so that they can do their research, they’re not going to identify with you. If they want more details and you give them bullet points, it's not going to work. A very quick way to notice that is people who are very direct and who lean in a lot of times. Most of the times, they are big visionary people. Many of them will be your bullet point people. They are the CEOs of many companies and they are forward thinking. They are interested in what's going on, but they’re not interested in the minutiae and the details. All they want is have it done. For them, you're going to give those quick bullet points and you leave.
At the same time, you get those people that are very good notetakers. If you're going to speak to somebody and they are a notetaker, you immediately know that they are a lot more detailed. Sometimes we will call them introvert versus an extrovert. However, both these personalities have a very large introvert part, which is very interesting. That's why the CEO can be somebody who can very quickly get angry and then leave it as well because they don't care. Whereas the other introvert because he is so serious and he wants to do everything so detailed and right, if you come and you tackle them immediately and tell them, “Why did you do this?” It will take them weeks to get over that. They cannot work with that so it's very important to understand. For the one, it's so easy and he doesn't care and for this one, that's the one thing in life they want to avoid most. Both of them are introverts.
You have your personality that is always inclusive. It's all about community building. It's all about building this community, making it better and helping others. If we talk to them with inclusivity, there's a much better understanding. You have the high imaginative personality that you talk and forget everything after five minutes. We know many of those as well. You are asking how you can be authentic and still communicate with them. If I have to communicate with a personality type that is opposite to me, let's say I am this very high direct person and I'm all about progress. You are this person who is there and you want to build a community. It would not mean if I am talking about inclusivity, that I’m not authentic. It doesn't mean that at all. In fact, it will make our communication a lot more authentic. I can still be who I am, but I can include you so that we create this amazing bubble. In this bubble, once we connect, what is going to happen is a ripple effect. Could you feel what I felt? I felt this energy that’s going down. That's the ripple effect because what we are doing right now can literally translate over the whole Earth.
Dustin
Let's start at your process. The biggest thing I realize now is being observant. If I were sitting down and watching how they're taking notes, I would notice they're taking notes. You're probably picking this up, which means your brain is going. Help me understand your process. When you come to meet some, are you looking for their eyes first? Are you listening to their word? How are you taking in all this information that's so valuable and processing it so quickly to get to where you need to be?
Rene
I listen to the words because I want to immediately know how they speak. Are they speaking in bullet points? Are they speaking because they want a lot of information? If I interview somebody, I will always ask them, “On a scale of one to ten, what would you say you are? Are you somebody who's good with people and why?” That's one of the things that I will look. Your bullet point people or the very strong direct people will either sit in the front row or they're going to sit in the back or close to any of the exit doors. They’re like, “If this is not interesting, I'm out of here.” Whereas your supportive people are going to sit right behind them because they are here to support the speaker. It's like, “We are here for you.” It's all about this.
Your notetakers will be the next group because they are taking notes so you are hardly going to see their faces. How do I hear this on the phone? I also hear words that they are saying. I can very quickly hear, is this is somebody who has a very detailed question or is this somebody who is giving me a very big vision. Is this somebody who is having this whole lilt in their voice? That means that they are like, “It's all about the fun. We are here for fun.” When I hear that, I immediately know who they are. The second part of my process is I have to listen to who they are. Tony Robbins called it the six human needs. As time has evolved, this being more human needs that now come to the forefront because there's a lot of people that are now in the place where one of their human's needs is to be heard. They are consistently texting, but people don't hear them.
There's a difference between what we do in here and what we hear because we listen versus something else. What I'm looking for is, “Is this person somebody who loves variety or is it somebody who loves stability? Let's go back to an example if we need somebody who wants to sell something or buy something from us. If you don't understand this person in front of you and what it is that motivates them, how can you relate to them? If I am speaking to somebody who is all about stability and I'm going to tell them about my eleven months world tour, they're going to listen for two to three seconds and then it's like, “Who cares?” If I know that you are a stability person and I come and we are talking like, “I want to buy something from you or sell you something,” and I can bring that something to you and show you how that can create stability, which is what WealthFit is doing.
WealthFit is all about showing people different ways in where they can be stable or get more stable and make a lot of money and hear how we have done it. You bring stability but what you also do in WealthFit is you’re bringing people who can do both. I have both and I get motivated by travel. That's not stability, that's variety and it's tough. Others are there in order to look at the community. If you don't know that and you don't put the personality together with the human need and then look at the body language, you miss so much of both.
Dustin
I feel that my characters are correct in the matrix. There's all this information around us. The information here was not taking the right pill so that we can see it. You have honed this and understand that. I feel like you've got this amazing advantage. You walk into a room and it's a code. You can pick it up and there's so much that you're benefiting from. What do you think about doing a course here at WealthFit for us?
Rene
I would love it. I cannot tell you how valuable this information is to make money because that can make you millions. It's made me millions. It grew my business to eight figures. It's all on this. It's all about people.
Dustin
Let's talk about listening because that's a part of this equation. I love the sales analogy. Oftentimes, salespeople want to give our presentation word for word when in fact that harms us. You saw something where you communicated that there was a study done and only 23% of people listen even though, “I'm listening and I'm on the phone.”
Rene
Over eighteen countries on every single stage I go, I will ask one question. I will ask them, “Are you a good listener?” Most people will put their hands up until I quantify it. I'm like, “That means if you listen, you're not thinking about what am I going to say, what is my comeback or what's my next point I want to make. You are truly involved.” That's when people go back. I can tell you how that can be a massive place for success because it's not just in the business world, but it plays a big role. Imagine you're going to do a $70 million contract. You sit at this table and we are reading through the contract, which can be boring. Now we are reading and you are listening to the words or you're totally zoning out. I am sitting there and all I do is I am listening, but I'm observing the person who is trying to give me that contract.
All of a sudden, I see a little movement when we come to a point or I hear somebody clear their throat or I see their feet go back or shift a little bit. What I can do is I make a note, “7A, this is what happened.” All we do is we ask for a continuance because we want to go and look at 7A and 13B.” We saw that those who presented was not totally comfortable with what they presented so they were expecting something. If we missed it, we would lose out. I can save you $3 million or $4 million or $5 million just by that. That's insane and that's part of listening.
Dustin
It reminds me of people that are seen as a cookie. They have a fortune teller or they have this other person in the room.
Rene
That’s the difference. This is scientific. That is intuitive.
Dustin
There's all this information around, but are we listening? For most of us, we don't know to listen. We don't know to look at the mouth or their eyebrows or whatever.
Rene
That's the cool part. We can all learn this and once we know it, we can never go back. Imagine you know how to listen and you come home with Missy and she's telling you something. Instead of being there, you hear what she has to say. That makes a relationship so much better. I happen to know that you have an amazing relationship. You are obviously good at it.
Dustin
I've been learning to listen better every day. That's the key.
Rene
Your kids will make you listen better than you ever expect because they will catch you on your own act.
Dustin
Rene, I know you as an amazing communicator, but you also understand how to get people into action. How does this parlay or does it parlay into getting people into action, getting people off the couch and getting people to do the things that they truly want to do deep down inside?
Rene
I truly believe that, but I have a whole different type of philosophy around that. What I've noticed is that everything starts in your brain. It's all about the idea. This is where we are most of our time. When we are here, nothing happens. We think we work. Nothing happens until you have this thought and now you put it into action, but the only part where you can have action is everywhere else in your body. Your brain cannot act and make it happen. You have to take whatever's in your brain. It's got to go and connect through your neck, which is interesting. That's the only part of the whole body that is connecting every part from the brain to the feet.
This is where you have your thought process. Then you take your arms. Your arms are the place where you take action. If somebody's arm is broken or they hurt their arm and when I see them, I will ask them, “You are in a place where you wanted to take a lot of action, but you don't know how to move forward or what to do next.” They will immediately tell me yes because this is a telltale that they wanted to do action and all of a sudden, they don't know how to move forward. Your legs are the part that can move you forward. That's why you can walk with your legs. It's the part that moves you forward. If somebody's leg is broken, it tells me that they are stuck and they don't know where to go.
What I will tell them is to remember one thing. This is my dad's wise words. Many times you would make a joke and you would say, “The man is the brain and the woman is the neck. She can turn you wherever she wants you.” You can become and bring that male and female energy together. If you are here and you are right now having this thought and you need to put it into action, let it go down. Sometimes you have to speak what you need. Get your team to help you to do it if you can’t do it yourself or otherwise, bring it into action. If you see it's not working, what do you care? You can rather take action than die and wonder if you didn't do it. If it doesn't work, turn your neck, do something else, ask a question and then start taking action from there.
I believe if people are willing to take out of their head and understand that being here is not going to take you anywhere. It's all about moving forward. It doesn't matter what you do. Doing anything is better than nothing because I think and I truly believe that the biggest regret that most people will have is if you pass away and you say, “What if I did that, how would it have turned out?” I believe the neck is one place. That's communication. It's either communicating the brain with your action part of the body or communicating with your team like, “Look at this wonderful camera people or the people that record our voices.” If you didn't communicate that this is what you want from us, nothing would happen.
Dustin
I want to make sure to get into this about you. You at a young age said you're going to travel the world and you have. It's one thing to put a dream together and execute on it. You've manifested and you've created that. It's one thing to run a business and then it's another thing to travel the world and run a business at the same time, but you don't stop there. You're running four to five different businesses. How are you doing this traveling? How are you able to pull this off? Are you not sleeping?
Rene
No. I am one of the hardest working people because I love what I do. I have figured out how to hire people that are amazing. Not only I hire people that are amazing at what they do, but that is so committed and they see it as just as important as you see it. I've figured it out. One of the things that my company has as a value is live and let live. My company has a few values and one of them is to always make a difference. It's not a difference for me, it's a difference in anything I do with everybody I come in contact with and that includes everybody who works with me. People know when you care. One of the things that are very important in my world is transparency.
I come in so many businesses where people are not open and transparent about what is real and what's not real. You can hide it for so long. It's not my cup of tea and it's something that I learned through time. My third value is authenticity. We talked a little bit about that. My fourth value is live and let live. How I set up all my businesses isn't a way where yes, I have the ownership of the business, but I create a pool where anything that we make in that company, there will be a percentage going into that pool. Anybody that works in my company takes part in that, whether you are the bookkeeper or the janitor. The other thing that I'm conscientious of is to hire people for what they are great at and what they love to do. If you do that and you're not consistently breathing over their necks about doing this or this is how you have to do. You trust that they're going to be better than you in what they do, I can do what I want. I am there. They know they can get me by picking up the phone and texting me. No matter where I am in the world, I always have my finger on the pulse, but I don't have to be there.
I used to have the philosophy that if you have a business and you can go away for a month and it's still there and it thrives, then you have a real business. I went so far as to test it for eleven months and I came back and my business was better than it's ever been. I know that I have a team that is magical. My executive assistant is off so I am using somebody else. I see these little things and I’m like, “Please come back.” Most of my people are there for five years and more. One of the things that you asked me is, “Does that mean you go with the flow and stuff like that?” The answer is yes and no. I’m a very big believer in looking at what is the outcome I want. If I decide this is a business where I want to do a $20 million business for. I am also going to know that even though I'm going to plan backwards, I also know that with technology and stuff, things change with a dime.
I have to be open and flexible. If there's something that comes in my path, you better believe that I'm going to take it, except if it is not going to point towards where my end result or outcome comes. I'm not going to fly with fifteen different businesses because I'm the CEO of fifteen businesses. Speaking and communication or coaching fall together. If I go and I get invited to go and put deals together for Coca-Cola in London and I'm sitting here and I'm looking at other people's body language while they do contracts and stuff like that, it's all part of communication. When Visa invites me to come and help them because they have too much turnover, it's communication. Frankly, every business I have falls under the same umbrella, but the way I get there is very different than most people.
My grandad was very wise and he would tell me, “When everybody is looking up at something, you look down and you pick up all the pennies that are there on the floor. Otherwise, you're just following the crowd.” I became a specialist in what I call the backdoor approaches. When we are in an event, most people are flocking to the speaker. I flock to the people who present the speaking engagement and the people who are doing the camera work because they are the people that can bring me back on that stage. If you do the backdoor approach, a lot of people have the feeling that you are a little bit less and I liked that because I am the fly on the wall. I get to hear everything and I have no idea that I'm smart enough to take it in.
Eventually, they have their little cocoon. I'm not saying I don't have that when I'm on stage. I'm in that same space, but I have the advantage that I also know how it is to be in the back of the room or whatever. I have a way bigger vision than what they will ever have unless they are allowing themselves to be part of that. I'm typical cancer in that aspect. What I always tell people is most people are going to go straight and hit their head a few times. I am one of those that I observe. I'm here and I will get there. People were like, “How did she do that? I never even knew that she could do X, Y and Z.”
Dustin
I can relate to that because I am that way too. Rene, I want to share this with you. I went to an event that I’ve never been to. In certain rooms, you enter and people know you. It's nice to be nimble and quiet and unknown so that you can go in and observe and make connections. You get so much good stuff. I wanted to ask you about the butterfly story. You were on this speaking world tour for a lot of months, but midway through, you had this awakening. Will you take us through this because people need to know this?
Rene
I took eleven months. I'm in month four and it's an amazing time. I'm in Thailand and that morning, I wake up and I am this emotional mess. If I'm saying I'm an emotional mess, I mean I am crying. I’m like, “I don't need to do this. I can buy a ticket and go back home. Then I can fly back when I need to speak at my next event.” One of the things that I am a big believer is you walk your talk. When I coach people, I tell them, “You never make decisions on emotions.” If I did this, I would miss the boat. What I did at that moment is I took my alarm. I set it for 30 minutes later and I gave myself 30 minutes to sulk. Then I decided I will go to my favorite breakfast restaurant. I set my alarm, climb back in bed and cry. I feel bad. My alarm goes off. I give a few swear words because I didn't feel like getting out of bed. I put my clothes on and I walked to this breakfast place where you had all these cute little ladyboys.
They put me at my table outside. They didn't know how to make me comfortable. They were the sweetest. I ordered this omelet and I'm sitting there. All of a sudden, there's this butterfly that flew into this beautiful pot plant that was next to me. The whole point why was so sad was that I felt so alone and so lonely. That story started since I was a child because I was a child prodigy for singing. I sang as a child in ten countries and won so many awards. I was onstage and when I was offstage, I was always alone because children were always jealous. That came a long time ago. When this happened, I was sitting there and this butterfly landed. I was looking at this butterfly and I took a picture of it just to do something because I knew I have to do something else. Otherwise, you go to the “why.” What happens is my omelet comes. Before I could even pick up my fork and knife, this butterfly flies into my plate facing outward, turn around, facing the omelet. Then it walks and it goes to sit in the middle of my omelet spreading its wings. It looks like it is having the nectar of its life.
This is a meat omelet. We know they don't eat meat, but it’s as if sucking the nectar of his life. I am so preoccupied with this that everything else went away. I am present. This presence took me to a whole different space and so much so that I took all these pictures of it. Once this is done, what I did is I took these pictures, put it on Facebook and I asked the community, “What do you think was the message for me?” I got 169 answers about what others thought it meant for me. At that moment, think a little bit. I was crying because I felt so lonely and alone. I had 169 people from all over the world coming to me. I had a butterfly coming to me. I had all these wonderful Thai ladyboys swooning over me. It taught me something magical and that is we are never alone. What we observe and what we think is the world we are creating at that moment, if you are in a place where you feel so thankful and you’re expecting things to turn out well, it will.
If you expect a place to be bad, it will be. We can be at the exact same space and see it totally different. That is one of the most magical moments of my life because, after that, I have not felt even this little bit of loneliness anymore. Those people that say it's lonely to be at the top, I can honestly tell you it's only lonely if you believe it. I love Tony Robbins words. He says, “Instead of going with expectations, go with gratitude. Feel incredibly blessed with every moment you have because it's in this moment that all of that can change.”
Dustin
For people that are moved, touched, inspired or maybe even curious about the magical powers that you have, what's the best way for people to find you online?
Rene
I have ReneKamstra.com and we are building out a communication university and Winning Communications. It will be up and running. By the time that we will have some courses, that's where you will find a lot of the courses for communication. The website will give you everything you need.
Dustin
Rene, thank you big time. I appreciate you and I 100% believe in you and the work that you've done. I wouldn't be here if you haven't kicked me in the butt a couple of times. We had some tough conversations that given me clarity and show me the way so thank you for me, thank you from the tribe, the community and the family we call it here at WealthFit for what you do in the world. Thanks for being on the show.
Rene
Thank you.
Dustin
Thank you for reading. I appreciate you and Rene does. We all appreciate you, even the team here. Everyone appreciates you reading this because there's no shortage of places to go. The fact that you're reading, it means the world to us. If you could share the wealth, if you found something beneficial in the show, we appreciate it, let Rene know. She comes to create that, but she's going to do it anyway. Share the wealth, pay it forward to maybe somebody that's struggling right now or maybe somebody that is great right now and wants to improve their communication skills. Share the show and share the wealth. That's it for now. I can't wait to have you back for the next show.
TAKE A FREE ONLINE COURSE

Wealth-Building 101

How to Get Out of Debt, Boost Your Active Income, and Start Investing for Passive Income

Start Your FREE Course

RELATED TRAINING

 in 

ENTREPRENEURSHIP

Brand Response

Brand Response

How To Create a Business Everyone Knows, Likes, Trusts … and Buys From

Rick Cesari

Watch Now
Credit Secrets for Entrepreneurs

Credit Secrets for Entrepreneurs

How To Use Business & Personal Credit To Launch Your Startup

Gerri Detweiler

Watch Now
podcast
Profitable Podcasting

Have you ever wanted to start your own podcast? Chris and Katie Krimitsos, founders of Podfest Multimedia Expo and Biz Women Rock (respectively) show you how to jumpstart your podcast and start making money.

Profitable Podcasting

Crowdfunding with Kickstarter

Crowdfunding with Kickstarter

How To Raise the Money You Need To Get Your Business Off the Ground

Anthony Nardolillo

Watch Now
podcast
Feeling Invincible, Marketing Martha Stewart & Dropping 76 Pounds!

Once Sayan Sarkar finally quit his full-time job, his side hustle business took off and generated 10x the amount of money he was making at his office job. He shares tips and tricks to how he was able to make this happen.

Feeling Invincible, Marketing Martha Stewart & Dropping 76 Pounds!

podcast
Born To Sell, Tripling Revenue & the Silver Tsunami

Are you investing in home care marketing? In this episode, The Hurricane explains why this industry is worth your hard-earned money.

Born To Sell, Tripling Revenue & the Silver Tsunami

podcast
Conquering Cancer, Making Movies & Selling Businesses

This Cancerpreneur didn’t let the bad news of illness get in the way of his entrepreneurial spirit and positive mindset.

Conquering Cancer, Making Movies & Selling Businesses

Free PR

Free PR

The Hustler's Guide To Capturing Media Attention & Getting Eyeballs on Your Brand

Nicole Dunn

Watch Now
article
How To Build Your Business Credit Score—To Get Business Loans & Low Interest Rates

Learn how to build your business credit score so you can get access to business loans with low interest rates.

How To Build Your Business Credit Score—To Get Business Loans & Low Interest Rates

Michelle Black

Read Now
article
Do You Have What It Takes To Be An Entrepreneur?

In her new book “Women with Money,” Jean Chatzky gives us the top 5 traits of successful entrepreneurs. [Excerpt]

Do You Have What It Takes To Be An Entrepreneur?

Jean Chatzky

Read Now
Idea To Income

Idea To Income

How To Start a Company and Turn Your Entrepreneurial Dreams into Reality

Didi Wong

Watch Now
Start Your Own Amazon Store

Start Your Own Amazon Store

How To Launch Your First Product on Amazon.com

Jason Boyce

Watch Now
podcast
Moneyball, Pitching 100 M.P.H. & Escaping The Canadian Government

Jill and Ron Wolforth are helping kids achieve their dreams by developing their skills with America's favorite pastime. However, their journey hasn't always been easy. Learn how they've grown from being uncomfortable.

Moneyball, Pitching 100 M.P.H. & Escaping The Canadian Government

Start Your Own AirBnb Business

Start Your Own AirBnb Business

How To Claim Your Share of the Fast-Growing Short-Term Rental Market

Mark Kappelman & Steven Eshkenazi

Watch Now
Start Your Own Online Education Business

Start Your Own Online Education Business

How to Become an Edu-preneur And Get Paid for Teaching What You Know

Robert Skrob

Watch Now
podcast
An Unusual Way To Wealth

WealthFit Chief Wealth Evangelist Dustin Mathews on his entrepreneurship journey. From rastafarianism to quitting his own company.

An Unusual Way To Wealth

article
How to Get Free Money from the Government to Fund Your Startup

Who doesn't want cash from their favorite Uncle Sam? Here's how you can find grants and fund your business with free government money.

How to Get Free Money from the Government to Fund Your Startup

Ian Chandler

Read Now
article
How Much Do You REALLY Need to Start a Business? The Answer is Less Than You Think.

Think starting a business takes TONS of money? It doesn’t have to. Here’s how you can build your empire without breaking the bank.

How Much Do You REALLY Need to Start a Business? The Answer is Less Than You Think.

Jon Westenberg

Read Now
article
Bootstrap Your Startup & Kickstart Your Success

Launching a startup without investors may seem like a one-way ticket to failure—but it’s one of the best ways to kickstart your business.

Bootstrap Your Startup & Kickstart Your Success

Ian Chandler

Read Now
podcast
Crowdfunding With Kickstarter

Bootstrapping a featured film. Tony Nardolillo explains how he funded his movie using Kickstarter—and made it into 600 theaters.

Crowdfunding With Kickstarter

podcast
Selling To Women

Selling to women—the too often overlooked market opportunity. Susan McVea on the process, methodology, and mindset of selling to women.

Selling To Women

article
How to Find the Co-Founder Your Business Needs

Choosing the right cofounder can make or break your business. Find a cofounder that compliments your skill set and delivers skills that you lack.

How to Find the Co-Founder Your Business Needs

Nathan Wade

Read Now
article
Learn 5 Key Ways to Onboard Employees

Your employees are your most valuable asset. Protect your investment in them with an effective and efficient onboarding process.

Learn 5 Key Ways to Onboard Employees

Nathan Wade

Read Now
article
How to Lead Employees to Greatness: Your (Hormonal) Strategy for Success

Consider and stimulate (the right) hormones for your team. Embrace leadership tactics that foster healthy hormonal teams.

How to Lead Employees to Greatness: Your (Hormonal) Strategy for Success

Jill Huettich

Read Now