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Crushing Debt with Shawn Yesner

This show was created at FinCon. This is a conference where money-minded folks get together in the personal finance space. I’ve done a lot of seminars and events and attended a lot. However, I had never been to any in the personal finance space. Lo and behold, I saw somebody in the crowd that I knew, not many people that I knew in a room full of 2,000.

It was Shawn Yesner, an attorney. He is one of us, entrepreneurial-minded and big on education. I said, “What are you up to?” He was like, “I’m doing my thing as an attorney growing my practice. I’m doing some of the stuff on the side. I’ve got my education business going.” I said, “Great.” I went further and he said, “The topic I’m educating people on is crushing debt.” I said, “That is perfect. Many of the topics we cover here on the show are very much about hustling, creating money and creating wealth.” What I recognize too is we get people who responded and said, “Dustin, that's all great and all but I’ve got debt,” and that's not easy for a lot of people to say. I want you to embrace it. Not be happy if you're in that situation where you're at but embrace it.

I want to share that I was over $100,000 in debt myself getting my business off the ground. I’m not recommending everyone do that. I know when I left my lifeline at work, I wanted to go out there and build it myself. I leveraged small business credit cards to get my vision off the ground. I would not be here now if it weren't for that. I am not advocating that everyone does that.

If you've got that fire inside of you, having access to capital is something important. For me, I ended up paying all of that back by putting my head down, not looking at how much debt I was in but hustling on. That's not advice or recommendation here. I wish I had known some of the strategies that we talked about in this episode.

Shawn gives us a little insight into what can creditors do because there are many stories out there of companies that will call you. They will harass you. They will send you letters in the mail. What are your rights?

In this episode, we also talk about what is the type of debt that can be forgiven? What is the mindset of the banks?

As you'll discover in Shawn's story, he used to crush people. What I mean by that is he used to work for the banks on their side. After a while, he figured out it was better to work on the other side and help consumers, homeowners and folks that are facing debt. If this is your situation, you definitely want to read on. Maybe you're not in any particular debt.

If you've heard from Andy Proper, our Founder, it’s good and sometimes it's a bad thing. Incredibly wealthy people understand how to leverage debt in a good way. Maybe you're in that situation where you have some consumer debt and you want to know what's good, what's bad, definitely check it out. To understand the psychology of banks is incredibly powerful.

Dustin
I’m here with Shawn Yesner, a good friend from many years ago. He's an attorney but he's unusual. I got to know Shawn at my first entrepreneurial thing after reading Rich Dad Poor Dad and working for this real estate education company. Shawn was one of our trainers.
Shawn
I was one of the attorneys that back in the day where real estate was appreciating. It would be $100,000 in the morning. It would be $150,000 in the afternoon. We were doing all kinds of fun.
Dustin
There I was repping a company and foreclosures. I had 20or 30 people around me and like, “What could this guy have known about it?” Those were the times back then.
Shawn
I dealt with that when I first started. When you and I first met, I was the baby-faced attorney, a late twenty-year-old guy trying to make a living, doing his own firm. Now I’m in the mid-40s and I’m the old guard. I don't have that baby face thing going for me anymore.
Dustin
I want to get into Crushing Debt. For those of you just getting to know Shawn, he’s an amazing attorney. He also is one of us. He has a bunch of side hustles going on and also helps people crush debt, but it didn't start that way. He used to crush people. Explain how you got into this world.
Shawn
I graduated from law school. Passed the Florida Bar in 1998 and started working at a firm down in Miami. I grew up in Miami, but it wasn't the same place. I got a job in Clearwater in the Tampa Bay area representing lenders in foreclosure. I was one of the guys taking away people's houses. I was doing foreclosure work and I thought it was a fascinating area of law. I got to do title litigation. I got to do real estate litigation. I got to do bankruptcy for the creditors, for the banks. I had a couple of appeals I got to argue. I have a couple of published appellate decisions because of that area of the law. I got to do evictions, title, closings, the whole nine yards. In 2004, a couple of years before we first met, the owner of the firm said, “I don't want to do this anymore.”I thought, “What am I going to do so that my file doesn't come across my desk? I need a job now. I bought my first house in the spring of ‘04 and summer of ‘04 was when the boss said, “I’m shutting it down, I don't want to do this type of law anymore.” I knew that Freddie Mac wasn't going to hire me. Chase wasn't going to hire me. They didn't want me to be their foreclosure attorney. They had other firms that were doing it. I said, “Let me take what I know about how to speed them up and let me see if I can slow them down,”and so I flipped sides and I started defending foreclosures. This was at the end of 2004, 2005 right as the market was about to crash.
Dustin
What were some of the interesting cases that you worked on in terms of working against the bank? What were some of the things that you were able to do? A lot of people don't know what their rights are if they're in this situation.
Shawn
The way I differentiated myself from a lot of the foreclosure guys back then and even still a little bit now, a lot of them were doing it when they saw that it was popular to do it. I was doing foreclosure defense because that's what I knew. That's what I had been trained to do was foreclosures. Now I take all those concepts and put them on their ears. The other thing was I still had, and up to now still have a little bit of that creditor slant. I still think I understand how the banks think, how the creditors think. Instead of taking the attitude that all banks are evil, securitization and who holds the loan and standing. All of that stuff is good, it will delay the foreclosure but a lot of it is smoke and mirrors. What I’m trying to do is let's get the borrower to a solution. I’ll bring upstanding and who holds the loan. I’ll bring up all that stuff. At the end of the day, that doesn't explain that the borrower did or did not make their payments. What can we do to help people get back on their feet? Can we get them a loan mod? Can we get them a short sale? Can we get them a bankruptcy and eliminate the debt? The lender attorneys understand that. I find it easy to work with them because they know I’m not coming after them because you don't have the note. I’m coming after them to help find their borrower a solution because at the end of the day, even the banks will tell you that the people that they are foreclosing are their customers. If I’m helping their customers, it's going to be easier to work with them.
Dustin
Do they truly want a speedy process?
Shawn
Florida has a speedy foreclosure law that was passed many years ago and it allows the banks to speed up the process and get the house back quicker. None of them use it. They lobbied for it. They wanted it. Their attorneys and their lobbyists wrote it and now they don't use it.
Dustin
Why not? Every day that a homeowner is in the house, they potentially lose. If they're going to foreclose and get them out eventually, the faster they turn that house around, the faster the bank is more profitable.
Shawn
In any environment, in any economy, there are a healthy number of foreclosures. We were clearly way above that in the recession. Now we're back to a healthier volume. Every lender has X amount of debt that they can write off as bad debt. They can only anticipate it, especially several years ago when there were foreclosures everywhere. If they had used the speedy foreclosure process, they would have been flushed with inventory because they would have had a negative economic impact. Now they’ve got to turn around and sell it and if they can't sell it, they have to maintain it. The cost of the foreclosure on the books versus the cost of maintaining a property, it's more expensive to maintain the property.
Dustin
I want to talk about crushing debt. Part of the WealthFit Nation that's reading, they may find themselves in debt. It's okay, we've all been there. I was over $100,000 in credit card debt myself. I was still managing to make payments by playing credit card fandango, as I’ve heard one speaker say once. This was in getting my business off the ground. I like to think it wasn't dummy debt. I was trying to get my business off the ground. I just was not making great investments in my education. It took some time to get that money back. For folks who have this dream of starting that side hustle, entrepreneurship or they have a lot of debt themselves. What are your top tips for getting out of debt?
Shawn
I was talking to another attorney and one of the things that we talked about was there's a big stigma around having debt. Sometimes bad stuff happens to good people. I tell people all the time, “Stop beating yourself up. It's a credit card.”If we negotiated away, if we bankrupted or if we do something like that, Visa’s not going to go out of business because they didn’t collect your brand. They're going to be okay. I get the moral compass of, “I borrowed it. I want to repay it.” One of the benefits of having an attorney, one of the benefits having me is that I get to take that emotion out of it. I get to be emotional about my clients. I understand that you feel bad about having X amount of dollars in debt, but my goal is to get you out of the debt. The way that Crushing Debt came to be is that I was told by my SEO guys, “You need more content. You need to differentiate yourself. You need something unique,” and so I started to think in my head. No matter what I did, it didn’t matter how early I woke up. It didn't matter how late I went to bed. I could not find the time to write a blog.
What I would do when I did find those rare occasions where I could write something, in the weeks leading up to that, I’d be going through in my head and saying, “Why don't I talk about this topic and I can have the introductory paragraph be about this? I can talk about that and I can insert this joke here. I can talk about this and it transitioned into that. I would talk about it and talk about it.” Right around the same time, I was involved in a group in Tampa that were getting involved in the beginnings of podcasting. Podcasting had started. Even now I don't think it's mainstream, but it had started to become something that people knew what to do with. It had come on when you buy a new iPhone and you have the Apple Podcast app on the iPhone. Previously, you would have to hunt for it and install it. It was right around that time that it was coming natively to when you bought a new iPhone. I thought, “Why don't I turn on the microphone and start recording what I’m talking about?”
That's what I did. I bought some equipment. I bought a portable recorder. I bought a couple of mics. It was cheap, upfront investment and I started talking. I started talking about the things that I did on a daily basis. I would talk about strategies for foreclosure defense. I would talk about loan modification strategies and negotiation strategies. I know I’ve done a couple of episodes. Every six months, my homeowner's association has a garage sale. A garage sale isa great place to practice your negotiation skills because it's low pressure. I did a series of podcast episodes on lessons that I’ve learned while negotiating at a garage sale and those types of topics. The podcast started to take off. It's on Apple Podcasts. I’m in my mid-130s. I’ve been doing it for a few years. One of the cool things about the podcast itself, it's not a side hustle in that it relates to the law firms. The purpose of the podcast is to generate for the law firm but it's doing that. I’ve been on radio shows with realtors that you know from Tampa and gotten zero from being on their radio show. I’ve gotten relationships and I’ve gotten some exposure, but no clients. The podcast is producing clients.
Dustin
I love that as an entrepreneur hack. Sometimes you get advice from gurus or you see something online and you can't find the time to write. You leveraged, you can talk, you have an opinion. That's a whole lot easier so that's a good insight.
Shawn
I’ve got to keep the content for the book up, I do write more. I’m religious about having an episode come out every week. I’m not as religious about the blog but if I do 52 episodes a year, I probably do 40 blogs a year. Having the podcast has caused me to find the time to write more to help generate the content for the podcast.
Dustin
For the person who is in debt, and I realize you can't be giving legal advice and every situation is specific and has a set of circumstances. What are the top things that folks should know that are in debt trying to get out of debt?
Shawn
The way I’ve titled it is it's not poker. There's no reason to bluff. There may be a reason to bluff from time to time. If you've got a lot of assets, if you're in an area where your assets may not be exempt, if you're in a state like for example Florida has an unlimited homestead exemption. There are other states that limit the homestead exemption. If you're in one of those states, maybe you have some incentive to bluff the creditor. If you've got the hand, show it because at the end of the day these banks are banks. They're making a business decision. A lot of people will say, “I don't have any assets, I’m uncollectable.” Fine, prove it. Show the bank your bank statements. Show the creditor your tax returns. Show them that, “My wife just lost her job. My husband just lost his job. I just got diagnosed with this illness. Here are the divorce papers.” Show the bank those types of things and then you'll be in a better position to negotiate. Rather than bluffing and saying to the bank, “My income dropped.” Fine, prove it. They may still want their judgment, but then maybe they don't collect it. In that sense it's not poker, you're not bluffing. If you've got the hand, show the bank. In many cases, once you show them that information, they'll settle with you.
Dustin
You tell me if this is a little forward, but do you have people that have come to you that maybe should pay their debt back? It's not that bad and you have to advise them on that?
Shawn
I do a lot of bankruptcy law as well. A lot of debt or bankruptcy 7s, which are liquidations and 13s, which are payment plans. I’ve done a handful of 11s, which are business bankruptcies. People come to me all the time, “How much debt do I need to have in order to be able to file bankruptcy?”My response is, “More than you can afford to repay.” Someone with $10,000 worth of debt but they make $100,000 a year payback. Someone with $10,000 of debt that makes $40,000 a year, maybe bankruptcy's an issue. Someone that has $100,000 of debt but they’re a multimillionaire five times over, payback. Somebody with $100,000 of debt that makes $50,000, you're a perfect candidate for bankruptcy. It has to be more than what you can afford to repay and it's going to be different based on the person. It's going to be different based on their job. Are they married? Does their spouse work? What state are they in? What exemptions can they claim? There area lot of times where bankruptcy may not be the best option and we'll advise something else. Let's try to settle it out. Let's try to pay it off over installments, consolidate it, whatever.
Dustin
This may be counter to your nature, but folks who can't come onboard with you or they're in a different state, do you advise them to pick up the phone, talk to the bank and try to negotiate themselves? Are they doing themselves danger by releasing information?
Shawn
A little bit of both. The first step should always be to call the bank. You do want to be a little bit careful about what you say. You don't want to dig yourself into a hole to talk to the bank. I graduated with a degree in accounting but that doesn't mean I can do my tax return. I have someone else do my tax return. I can change the oil in my car. I don't want to do it. I can mow my lawn, but I’d rather hang out with the kids. I pay other people to do those things so that I can spend my time doing other things, whether other income-producing things or spending time with family. I put myself in that same arena from that same perspective. You may be smart enough to negotiate your own debts, but you've got to run your own business. My business is eliminating debts. You pay me to do that, so you can go out and do what makes you money so that you can fund whatever settlement I can create.
Dustin
You hear these horror stories of debt collectors calling people. This may be misleading advertising, “We can consolidate your debt,” and I want to invest some time here to empower people and give them an understanding of what's real and what's not. Can you break that down a little bit for us? What are some of the common things that these companies are doing out there to mess with people and they can't get away with it?
Shawn
We've got some governmental agencies that give us a hand in these areas that give us some help in these areas. You've got the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission. You got the CFPB, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. These governmental agencies have created rules where the people that are trying to help you get out of debt typically can't collect fees upfront. What they would do a lot of times is they would say, “We'll consolidate your debt. We’ll get all your debt reduced, a lower interest rate. We’ll pay it all off. What you have to do is you have to pay us every month.” What they would do is they would aggregate all that money until they had enough to settle with a creditor. Then they call the creditor and they would say, “Don't pay the creditor because they won't settle if you're current on your loans,” which unfortunately is true more often than not. A lot of these governmental agencies have come in and put regulations and restrictions that prevent a lot of those practices.
What they would do is they would say, “We're going to collect the monthly payment from you. Once we build up enough money, we’ll settle with the creditor.” They would take their fee out of those first however many payments so that you think, “I paid in ten months’ worth, shouldn't we have enough?” No, because you paid in ten months’ worth but five months of that were to cover our fees. You only got five months towards your creditors. We're continuing to take for our fees, so you’ve got to keep paying us. Those kinds of things are the things that I would look out for. Companies that ask you to pay upfront, companies that make guarantees, companies that tell you not to make your creditor payments, mortgage payments, credit card payments. I will never tell anyone not to make their payments. I will tell them that the banks are less likely to settle if they're current and then they can take that information. If they choose to stop making payments, they can stop making payments. I will never tell anyone to stop doing it.
Look out for people that guarantee. I never guarantee. Ethically I can guarantee any specific results, I just don't do it. Look out for people who say, “We've got an X percent success rate.” The Florida Bar won't let me say what my success rate is because I can't create the idea in the mind of a client that I can generate a specific result. If I’m trying to negotiate with a creditor and one of my clients wants to call, go for it. Don't do something opposite to what I’m trying to do. If I’m trying to get you a lump sum payment, don't ask for a payment plan. If I’m trying to get you a loan mod, don't ask for a short sale. Don't work against me but if you want to call a creditor, by all means call a creditor. I don't care. It doesn't bother me.
Dustin
Are there different laws for different states in statutes?Is it generally pretty much the same all across?
Shawn
There are two statutory structures we have to look out for. There are the federal laws, the FTC, the CFPB, the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, the FDCPA. There are all these different federal laws that control. The other thing is you have to look at your state because different states have different exemptions. Different states have different things you can protect. I tell people a lot of times Florida has the best homestead protection in the country. It's 100% exempt. The worst personal property exemption in the country you get $1,000 wild card and $1,000 for your car. The way that I explain that is if you have a $5,000 car that's free and clear, you can protect $1,000 of that value. The creditor can take the car, pay you $1,000 and keep the rest. You want to be careful what state you're in and then talk to an attorney in your state that's familiar with the laws, that's familiar with the exemptions. You would be exempt from wage garnishment if you're the sole wage earner and you have dependents in the house. Be aware of those different types of laws and when they can be used to protect somebody from an over aggressive creditor. We've got the federal laws that say, “Creditor, if you're being overly aggressive, the borrower has the right to sue you for being overly aggressive.”
Dustin
I want to move into some of the things that I know about you that people can benefit from. Shawn is not your typical attorney or lawyer. You've kept up with this idea of creating multiple streams of income for yourself doing many different things. Besides the podcast and the book, what are some of the other things that you've done to create wealth for yourself?
Shawn
I have the law firm that's generating the revenue. I did have a title company for a little bit of time but decided for a bunch of reasons that we probably take three or four more podcast episodes. I decided to shut down the title company. The podcast is generating money. I came out with a book also called Crushing Debt that is generating some money, not enough to retire but enough that I can take the kids on vacation. I do a lot of training. I’m in a networking organization. I’m one of the trainers for that organization, but I have taken that, and I’ve created topics. Some of them I talk about in the podcast. One of the episodes that I came out with was, “How do I network at a conference event?” I’ve done a lot of that type of talking as well. I’ve got that stream of income in terms of training people on how to be better referral marketers, how to be referral-based marketing, word-of-mouth-based marketing. I do a lot of that training. If it's a stream of income that I can fit in, that I can take advantage of my time, I’ll do it.
Dustin
I know you've invested in real estate in the past. Do you have any other preferred investments like stocks, oil and gas or anything?
Shawn
I have the type that everybody else has. I’ve got some stocks. I’ve got some 401(k). My wife has an IRA, the real estate and then investing in myself.
Dustin
As attorneys, you've got to invest in continuing ed essentially, your version of that. What are some of the other things that you've done to invest in yourself?
Shawn
I read a lot. I’ll be 35 or 40 books this year that I’ve read. I like having the hardback, the hardcover in my hands. Some of them are on Kindle. I do listen. Not only am I a podcast creator, but I’m a podcast consumer. I’ll listen to podcasts in my car. An interesting tip, I like to speed them up. I like to listen to them at 1.5x or 2x speed. I’ll be able to get through a bunch of podcasts as I drive around during the day. The books, the podcasts, the reading, taking courses, not only continuing legal education but networking education courses, personal development courses. Some of the big names, Jeff Gitomer comes to mind. Tony Robbins comes to mind. I know that Grant Cardone does them all over the country. Things like FinCon and Podfest. I don't just go to the continuing legal education seminars. I also go to other types of multi-day seminar events to continue to get the education, not only in what I do podcasting or producing content but also for me.
Dustin
You mentioned the volume of books you've read. What are the top two to three books this year? What are your favorites?
Shawn
I was introduced to Grant Cardone. I’ve known who he was but I was just introduced to his books, The 10X Rule and Be Obsessed Or Be Average. I finished Tony Robbins’ book Awaken the Giant. I’m reading Built to Last. A lot of those books stick out in my memory.
Dustin
What is your most worthwhile investment?
Shawn
I’m going to have to be cheesy and probably say myself. My dad provided for the family and we weren't rich by any means, but we didn't ever want for anything. If we wanted to take a vacation, we went on vacation. If I wanted something for my birthday, I typically got it if I got the good grades. My mom didn't work. She was a stay-at-home mom. My wife works but I don't want her to have to work by necessity. I want her to work by choice. That's part of the reason I’m always trying to look at lines of revenue, streams of income that will fit in with what I’m doing so that I don't have to work as hard. That my wife doesn't have to work so that I can provide for my family like my dad provided for us.
Dustin
What's your guilty pleasure? What’s your splurge spending?
Shawn
At this point, it's probably my boys. Although, if I can't answer with my family. A few years ago, we saved up some money and we bought a Big Green Egg, the ceramic smoker, grill and cooker. I have cooked on that thing every weekend that I’ve been in town.
Dustin
I’ve seen this thing and heard about it. What's so special about the Big Green Egg?
Shawn
It will do everything. It's a charcoal grill. Put the plate on it, it becomes a smoker. My guilty pleasure is experimenting with it so smoking different kinds of meat, grilling different kinds of meat. I’m always doing hamburgers, cheeseburgers, hot dogs, chicken, the normal stuff. Getting into ribs, brisket, I smoked a ham on Thanksgiving. We had the turkey in the oven, we had the ham. Somebody brought over a deer that they had caught and cured and cooked that. It doesn't take much to get me to fire up that Big Green Egg.
Dustin
You're big into your education and you’re big into personal development. What would you say in the last few years you've personally worked on that have made a big difference in your life that you've seen benefit from?
Shawn
Understanding myself. Understanding what gets me fired up. Understanding what calms me down. Understanding that it's my behavioral style and to recognize when I’m in a big conference and making sure the wall doesn't fall down. To then recognize that to force me to get off the wall. To force myself to go talk to people, to force myself to say hello because if I don't do that, I’m not going to get the brand recognition. I’m not going to create the perception. I’m not going to generate the business. I have to learn that stuff, learn when it's happening and learn how to break me out of that mold.
Dustin
I have to imagine that a lot of stuff comes across your plate in terms of client work and banks screaming at you and vice versa. How do you handle overwhelm and stress? What's your secret sauce to shoulder all of the things that come your way?
Shawn
I’m going to back up a few years ago. We had my first son. My wife was pregnant with our second son. We took a trip from Tampa to Atlanta to see my family and then Atlanta to South Carolina, my wife's cousin was getting married. For those that aren't familiar with the geography, it takes about six hours to drive from Tampa to Atlanta. It takes about the same amount of time to drive from Atlanta to wherever we were in South Carolina. It took us probably ten hours each leg. Not because I have a young son, not because I have a pregnant wife because I had to stop every 45 minutes and use the bathroom. I was insatiably thirsty. Water, coke, tea, lemonade, beer, it didn't matter what it was. I would suck it down and need another one immediately. I was always thirsty and I always had to go to the restroom. When we got back to Tampa, I went to the doctor. He pulled my blood. Normal fasting blood sugar should be somewhere between 80 and 120. You don't eat for 24 hours. They take your blood. Your blood sugar level should be between 80 and 120. Mine was over 600. I am pre-diabetic. The doctor said, “You have two choices. We've caught it early enough. You change your diet and start exercising or you keep doing whatever you're doing, and I’ll prescribe the insulin shots.”
One of my phobias is needles. I said, “I’ll change my diet. I’ll start exercising.”Within that month, I had met a friend of mine who was a runner and I started running with her. She ran, I ran ten feet and then walked. Slowly but surely kept going and completed an entire three-mile practice loop without stopping and then got faster. Now I run every Monday night. I run every Wednesday night. I probably run about ten to fourteen5K races a year. I’ve found that it's also a stress relief. I don't use earbuds, I don't use music. Some places that I run there are cars, there are bikes and so I need to hear what's going on around me and so I intentionally don't. I listen to podcasts in the car, so I don't need my run time to listen to podcasts, but it calms me down. It tires me out. It keeps my health in check. Probably if you had met me a couple years ago, I would have been about 50 pounds heavier. I’ve dropped the weight. I’ve maintained. Bad cholesterol is down. Sugar’s down. My sugar's probably at about 140, it’s still a little high but not 600. I look forward to my Monday and Wednesday runs because I know it will be a stress relief.
Dustin
Besides that, because that’s a major life transformation, what would you say is one of your defining moments in life?What I mean by that is looking back now, going back to that moment where you made a decision that completely changed your course of life.
Shawn
It has to be in 2004 when the owner of the firm said, “I’m shutting down,” and decided, “Let me go off on my own.” I’ve known that I wanted to be an attorney since high school. I became an attorney out of spite because my high school law teacher didn't pick me to be on the school's mock trial team and I said, “I’m going to show you.” My dad is a CPA. My degree is in accounting, so I have the accounting background. I’m not a CPA. I always knew I wanted to go to law school. I always knew I wanted to be an attorney. My dad owned his own CPA practice until he retired so I knew that at some point I was going to own my own firm. Somebody asked me one day, “Would you go back and fix any of the mistakes that you've made?”and I said, “I don't think I would because if I didn't make those mistakes, I wouldn't be where I am. If only I had convinced that first girlfriend to marry me, I wouldn't have my wife or kids now.” You never know how things are going to change, how things are going to develop. I always knew that I was going to have my own firm and it was that that boss that I had in ‘04 that gave me the kick in the rear end to finally say, “I know I’m going to start it up eventually. Why not do it now?”
Dustin
Shawn, thanks for being on the show. If someone finds himself in debt and they want to learn more about what are all the different ways, what are their rights, what's right and wrong that companies can do to them or for them essentially? Where can people find out more?
Shawn
The easiest way is going to be the website, YesnerLaw.com. The link to the podcast is on the website or they can go to any of the major podcast players, Apple Podcasts. They can go to Spotify. All the artificial intelligence ladies, Alexa, Siri and all them and search Crushing Debt on all the podcast players. The book is on Amazon. Everything's branded Crushing Debt. Amazon, Crushing Debt, Apple Podcasts, Crushing Debt.
Dustin
Be sure to check it out. Shawn, thanks for being on the show.
Shawn
Thanks. I appreciate it.

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How To Legally Reduce Your Taxes By Up To 40%

Tom Wheelwright

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Money 101 for Teens

Money 101 for Teens

The Ultimate Guide To Making, Spending, Saving, and Investing Money

JP Servideo

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Wealth Acceleration

Learn how Stuart Arakelian recovered and prospered from the 2008 financial crash—and how it impacted his philosophy on wealth management.

Wealth Acceleration

Intro to Credit

Intro to Credit

How to Get Started, Boost Your Score, & Leverage Credit to Build Wealth

JP Servideo

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Wealth-Building 101

Wealth-Building 101

How to Get Out of Debt, Boost Your Active Income, and Start Investing for Passive Income

Andy Proper

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Timely Tax Benefits, Wealth Preservation & Leverage

Preserve your hard-earned wealth. Learn to use tax advantages to your benefit and leverage trusts with Supreme Court Counselor Lee Phillips.

Timely Tax Benefits, Wealth Preservation & Leverage

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Cutting the Cable

What’s the cable cutting movement all about? Cable Cutting Academy's Jeremy Edmonds discusses tech and finance hacks to save you money.

Cutting the Cable

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How To Finish College Debt-Free

Scared of leaving college with a mountain of debt? Join freedom-fighting entrepreneur Ellen Long as she talks getting your degree debt free.

How To Finish College Debt-Free

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How to Write A Goodwill Letter That WORKS [Templates Included]

Is a late payment hurting your credit score? There's good news: you write a goodwill letter and ask the creditor to take it off your credit history.

How to Write A Goodwill Letter That WORKS [Templates Included]

Lance Cothern

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Pay Off Your Mortgage With a Credit Card: When Does It Make Sense?

Paying the mortgage with a credit card is becoming a more popular strategy. But is it a good strategy?

Pay Off Your Mortgage With a Credit Card: When Does It Make Sense?

Justin McCormick

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How to Teach Your Kids About Money

Give your child the education they need for the financial future they deserve. J.P. Servideo teaches us how to talk to our kids about money.

How to Teach Your Kids About Money

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How To Negotiate a Higher Salary

Want to boost your salary? Rich Jones and Marcus Garrett help you determine your financial worth. Negotiate for the life you deserve.

How To Negotiate a Higher Salary

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Discovering Your Wealth Avatar

What is your purpose? Ridgely Goldsborough on discovering your wealth avatar and its accompanying superpowers.

Discovering Your Wealth Avatar

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Why You (Probably) Don’t Need Dental Insurance

Your smile is an invaluable asset. But some dental insurance plans cost you more than they save.

Why You (Probably) Don’t Need Dental Insurance

Andy Proper

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How to Buy Car Insurance & Get The Best Deal

If you don’t know what your car insurance plan covers—now’s the time to find out. You’ll be surprised by how much you can save.

How to Buy Car Insurance & Get The Best Deal

Nathan Wade

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Cut the Cable (Bill) - 10 Alternatives to Cable Television

Cutting your cable bill is an easy way to save tons of money. If you have home internet you already have access to on demand entertainment.

Cut the Cable (Bill) - 10 Alternatives to Cable Television

Lance Cothern

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Budgets for the Service Industry: How to Budget When You Work for Tips

Learn how to budget when you work for tips. How to take control of your finances in the service industry.

Budgets for the Service Industry: How to Budget When You Work for Tips

Jill Huettich

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Freeing Your 401(k)

Freeing Your 401(k)

How to Route Your Retirement Funds into Passive Investments

Andy Tanner

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The Hidden Power of Life Insurance

The Hidden Power of Life Insurance

How to Protect Your Ass(ets), Save Smarter, and Start Putting Your Money to Work

Stuart Arakelian

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