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Minesh Bhindi: The Perfect Portfolio, Gold & Silver and the Wealth Triangle

Our guest is Minesh Bhindi. He is the Founder of the Perfect Portfolio, investor extraordinaire out of the UK. In this show, we cover a lot. You're going to love especially if investing is up to your alley. We talk about the Perfect Portfolio. We talk about how gold and silver is exciting and safe. We talk about REITs and Minesh's belief that it's much better than managing and running your own property investments. We also cover the wealth triangle, the cash matrix and the three asset classes that you must have in your portfolio, especially if you desire to model what the wealthiest folks in our society have in their portfolios. All that and a lot more in this show.

Dustin
It's 2008, the big crash and one of the most difficult times for investors wiping out many portfolios worldwide. Minesh, I want you to take us back. What was this time like for you and how did you manage to navigate one of the biggest crashes as of now?
Minesh
Talk about memories, 2008 was an interesting one. Everyone will agree. Back in 2008, I had two businesses in addition to my investments. One was teaching people how to buy physical property in real estate and the other one was teaching people how to invest in the stock market. 2008 emotionally for me, first because that's important based on what happened afterward. Emotionally for me, it was a gut check from multiple levels. Number one, my own investments, it was a gut check. It was the first time I'd ever experienced anything like that. On another level, it was a gut check as an educator, as a coach and as someone who's responsible for other people too. In the sense that as a coach and as a trader, we were teaching people how to invest with leverage and tools that are very valuable for expert traders but very dangerous for normal investors. Yet they're promoted heavily by educators in our space simply because they create more exciting results to put on a PowerPoint presentation.
The truth about those things is that when you're trading at 100% to 1% leverage, the market only needs to lose 1% and you are completely wiped out. You're 1% is gone. What happened to me in 2008 as an educator was I finally realized that I'm giving them a gun and I'm getting a disclaimer sign saying, "I'm smart enough. I'm not going to do anything stupid with this gun," and everything. Signs are the lawyers are happy. They're going ahead and pointing the gun at their foot and pulling the trigger anyway. That's not because they're stupid. It's because leverage is used by professional traders and most people are not professional traders. Most people are trying to create some freedom in their life, some security for their family, to build a brighter future for their children and to retire in style and hopefully leave a legacy for the future generations.
Most people are not professional traders. That was a real gut check for me realizing that even though the lawyers were happy, I still felt a sense of responsibility in that scenario. I took a year off after that. I started figuring out how to make safe investing exciting. Now that was my educational journey. My investment journey was much calmer and stable because the people that I was around, the people that I was speaking to advised me in a calm, cool, collected way to sit it out. Get rid of the leverage and sit it out and everything worked out fine in the long run. While all the panic was going on, the people that I knew were sitting it out. The cash ahead was waiting for the right purchase opportunity, which showed up in 2009. As an educator, when I came back to it and I was already studying gold and silver, I thought, "What if I could make safe investing exciting for people who've got ‘normal dreams?’” They don't have the dreams of professional traders and hedge fund managers. They have normal dreams. We decided to build a business, teaching people how to invest in gold and silver, but do it safely. Do it without leverage, do it without taking stupid risks and do it the way wealthy people do it rather than the way that they've been taught to them, which is trading and speculating.
What's funny to me is that people go through our programs and go, "This is so simple after a while." It's simple, but it's not common knowledge. That's the problem with it. If it was common knowledge with the simplicity that as it would be taught in schools, but it's not what we're taught in schools. What we're taught in our education and in seminars and things like that is to train. It's to risk. It's to hustle. It's to bustle. It's to put all this hard work when real wealth-building can be simple, can be easy. It doesn't need to be as risky as most people think it is.
Dustin
Minesh, I have so many ways I can take this interview. This a lot of fun. I want to go back to that moment. I appreciate your sincerity and you're telling it like it was. When you were going through that crash and you had the wise advisors saying, "Sit it out." I imagine you had a portfolio that took a hit meaning the values. You were feeling that. It's one thing to get the wise knowledge from people and hearing them sit and say, "Sit it out," which I can appreciate. However, if you see your values diminished by 50% or 40% or even 30%, how do you temper that emotion of like, "How can I sit it down? I need to be proactive. I need to do something.” How did you do that?
Minesh
With your current project, WealthFit, that's where you build the for long-term investing. It doesn't come from waiting and waiting, getting in and being hit with that. I was hit with many different downturns, many different corrections before that point happen that my muscle, my fitness for wealth was a lot stronger to be able to deal with that. That one was a crazy one, but because of the foundation of that wealth fitness that I had, I was able to deal with it a lot easier and also trust the people around me a lot more than I would have had that been my first one. Once you study markets for the long-term, you realize that you can't time these things.
There's no way you're going to time catching the bottom and selling at the top. Corrections happen every single year. On average since 1900, they've happened every single year and average correction lost about 54 days. The average correction is a downward movement of 14.2%. If you can go, my account is down 14.2%. I'm sitting on this for a few months and I can handle that. That's when you should get involved with investing. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't be involved with investing in the first place. As far as 2008 happens, statistically, they come around once every 70 years. We've seen one for a lifetime statistically.
Dustin
You got started with your dad negotiating and selling real estate. I always love to ask this question. I feel like it's nostalgic for a lot of people. What was that first deal that you remember working on with your dad or that first deal that you worked on that was your first entry into investing?
Minesh
That story was interesting because my dad was negotiating property. He was sitting in the living area of the house and I was walking past and stood by the door as he was finishing the negotiation. Through the phone he said, "What are you looking at?" I said, "I could do that. That sounds easy." Talk about taking your own fist and putting it in your mouth. Luckily, instead of telling me to get lost, he told me to show him. He said, "Show me that it's that easy." I had to figure it out. The first deal, I can't remember, it was so small. The one that I remember was the one where I started investing myself.
That's the main one. In essence, it was very simple. The deals that we were negotiating were brand new, ready-built buildings where the developer was sitting on 30 units or 40 units that they wanted to get rid of so they could free up the cash and move onto the next development. We would come in, negotiate that deal, package it up and sell it to investors that were in our circle. The best bit about it was because I had no concept of what was a good deal. I had no recollection and no idea of what might be acceptable to the developers, I was going in and making stupid offers and they were getting accepted. As more and more of them are getting accepted, we see more and more confident in that.
I was getting the best deals out of the whole group of people that were negotiating the deals for the community. The best one that we had was eighteen units, eighteen apartments in the Canary Wharf part of London, which is like the financial district. We got a 28% discount off the price. This was in the Wild West days of 2006 where we could walk into the valuer's office and say, "Here's the spreadsheet." Instead of going, "I'll go check it out tomorrow," he would say, "What valuations do you want on them?" At which point, we would say 20% higher than the market. We would get the mortgage company to loan out 85% of that higher valuation, which meant we had 5% there plus an extra 28% in discount that we'd arranged. It worked out. I bought three in that one. I walked away with £68,000 cashback with £250,000 in equity, by then I was eighteen. That was the first actual deal that I did. It would cost me £1500 to reserve the property.
Dustin
Your dad was into the property so he guided you. He had been doing this for a while. Was property your first exposure to investing? Had you had done stocks or golden silver that you do now or did that come later?
Minesh
The property was the first thing. My dad was around stocks and trading, this and the other. I had an idea. That's one of the key things as well. Everything that we're talking about in terms of building long-term wealth and things that there is an element of luck built into it. If my parents didn't know anything about it, there was nothing to be no conversation with me. Saying that I don't want anyone to use that as an excuse as to why they can't do it. Let me correct myself immediately with that one because sometimes you hear that and you go, "That's why I can't do it because my parents didn't." Everyone can do this. It means you've got to get the right knowledge. Everyone can do this. He was already into real estate. He was already into different things, but the real estate one was the real one. I was in high school taking lunch breaks on the phone to lawyers and developers and things like that to try and get a deal through.
Dustin
At sixteen or in high school, video games and girls were the things in my mind, not calling an attorney on my lunch break and negotiating. Kudos to you.
Minesh
I had no idea what girls were at that point. I was shy until I was older.
Dustin
Minesh, we're talking property right now and you're across the pond is the saying as they say. I can picture what people say. I remember my first couple of events, seminars and education. Most of us, we like to invalidate. I don't want to put that on people, but I think the big objection in people's head is like, "Why should I even listen to Minesh in this conversation?" Although we will talk about stocks which know no boundary and gold and silver knows no boundary. The property, it's specific to states, countries, nations. To overcome that, what do you generally say to people that are US-based students?
Minesh
Luckily, 70% of our clients are US-based so that helps us out. The only thing that I would say is that I'm a big fan of the US. I've always been a big fan of the US and most importantly, I'm a fan of the capitalist structure that the US has even though that's challenged and things like that. There is no one perfect system. However, in my mind, the combination of the democratic pursuit plus capitalism that the US has is probably one of the most stable structures around the world. It's been proven now with the strength of the US economy. As far as listening to me goes, most of my real estate before was in London and the local areas around me.
You grow up and you realize the life-sucking elements of investing in real estate that way where you've got to find deals playing for tenants, get mortgages, deal with management agents, have management headaches and deal with local state laws, council laws. I deal with the property maintenance, have void periods, deal with builders, deal with lawyers, worry about getting sued and break-ins. All these little things that come up that suck the life out of real estate investments and suck the profit out real estate investments as well. Before you bought the deal, you've got to pay people like me when I was sixteen, find this fee is to find these deals for you so that you can buy them. I negotiated a 28% discount.
I'm not giving you a 28% discount. I'm giving you a 25% discount, plus you're paying me a finder's fee. I'm making 3% on the property, 2.5% finder's fee that you are giving me. I'm getting kickbacks from the lawyers. I'm going to kickbacks from the mortgage brokers because you got to use my mortgage brokers and my lawyers. I'm getting paid all the way around. All that does for real investors is it sucks out the profit. On top of that, you get all the work. That's the problem with real estate investing in the way that most people are doing it. I don't believe that most people that want freedom, the ability to travel, to create freedom for their children, to have security for their future and one of retire in style want that.
Genuinely on their gut-level want that. They're doing it because they might think it's right or they've heard someone like me on stage say, "This is the best thing you can do, but I don't think they want it." What they want is something safe, something stable, something that they can rely on, something that they can make liquid when it's needed and something that they can use to give them the lifestyle that they want. What we have now with Perfect Portfolio, we invest through REITs, which are Real Estate Investment Trusts. These are big companies where investors from around the world, including institutional investors like Warren Buffett go and put their money into. These companies, their sole job is to buy, manage and invest in real estate and distribute the profits to you at the lowest fee possible.
The advantage of this is you don't have to deal with any of the emotional sides of it or any of the physical side of it. You don't have to worry about building a bond with your tenant and them telling you, "I can't afford to pay my rent." These guys are the most precise accountants' analysts that you've ever met and they're working 24/7 to increase your profits. Here's why. You would say, "Why do they want to increase my profits?" The more that they increase your profits through the fund, the more money will be attracted through the fund. They want more and more money into their fund. They need to increase the returns that are coming into that fund. Their job is to protect and grow your money better than anybody else. When you use these vehicles, you're investing alongside Warren Buffett.
You are investing alongside the best investors in the world, and you don't have the hassle of finding the deals, let alone managing the deals, let alone paying someone like me when I was sixteen 10% of the value of the property for structuring the deal. That's how we invest in real estate. That also means forget geographical uncertainties like, for example, Tesla's moving its factory. Suddenly, we're going to get 11,000 fewer jobs in this particular area and I've bought a property. It takes care of all of that. You're investing in a fund that's fully diversified all around the US in different types of real estate with analysts. Quite frankly, the best geeks you've met on Earth, making sure that these numbers always stack up. Why wouldn't you want that real estate investment?
Dustin
When you invest in real estate, at least here in the US and I imagine in different parts of the world, you get the tax benefit. There are some tax benefits you get. With the REIT, do you get those same tax advantages?
Minesh
That's something that I stay away completely. That's something that you need to speak to your tax advisors.
Dustin
I'm glad you're telling us where to go. I want to talk about this transition from real estate into a REIT. Minesh, for my lack of education, and if folks are reading this, they can probably relate especially if they're getting into it. Is a REIT an index fund that uses real estate as a vehicle or is it something different than an index fund?
Minesh
What we invest in is an index fund of REITs. There are different REITs in different sectors. There'll be a REIT, a Real Estate Investment Trust that funds commercial property. There'll be a Real Estate Investment Trust that owns care homes. There'll be a Real Estate Investment Trust that own shopping malls. What we invest in is the master fund on top of that, which owns all of these funds. It sits on top and diversifies all of your money into all of these different funds and they manage it. You've got two levels of managers for that. You've got on the REIT level where you've got the actual guys on the ground going and buying the properties and managing them. You've got the master ETF, the REIT ETF sitting there going, "We think the commercial property is going to do better so we need to go and put it into a commercial property."
They look at different waiting levels and they go and diversify that portfolio overall for you. For example, the ETF that we use is diversified into eight different real estate sectors with one stock purchase. You're diversified into 154 US real estate holdings with one stock purchase. The best bit about it is your yearly fee for doing this whole thing is 0.12% of your investment. You're not even going to find a fund manager that you know locally to manage your money for that level.
Dustin
How did you arrive at that? You alluded to it, Minesh. You mentioned the emotional bond that you have. You've got to kick someone out, a tenant, the geography, but how did you arrive at this? A lot of our audience has a rental. They have this. They're trying to create that dream for themselves. A lot of folks don't necessarily go to a REIT or they don't think to go that method. How did you arrive at this? Did you get fed up one day and you're like, "Enough is enough. I've got to find a better way?"
Minesh
I have a nightmare story for you on how I arrived at this. I was sitting at home on a Saturday at 11:00 PM. My phone rings and it's a tenant on a property that hasn't got a management agent on it. He tells me that the light bulb has gone out. I say, "There are spare light bulbs in the cupboard, change it." He says, "No, my tenancy agreement says I've got to call you because I can't put myself in harm's way." I said, "Come on, it's a light bulb." Excuse my language, but you've taken me back to the emotion of that night. He said, "No." I had to drive all the way there to change a light bulb at 11:00 at night on a Saturday evening. On that drive back, I said, “I'm done doing this. This is not what my real estate portfolio should be giving me." It should not be giving me the job of a real estate manager under any circumstances. I don't want to pay real estate managers crazy fees. From that moment, I started discovering and looking at how do the big guys do it? How do the companies invest in real estate, not the guy on stage?
Dustin
My thought was people are throwing things at the virtual TV or podcasts or their phone and they would say, "Minesh, why don't you go get a property manager?" You say, "You do that and they suck the profits out of the deal.”
Minesh
A property manager is going to charge you 10% of your rental income. When I first started when I was sixteen shared offices with us so that's why I had 10%. Most of these guys are at 15% or if not 20%. Whereas this one fund, diversified in the eight sectors, 154 different real estate holdings. It's got a return since inception of 8.48% compounded yearly of getting a 4.52% dividend net income yield. My fee is 0.12% plus I can use the creative things that we do on the options side that we teach our clients to generate an extra 1% a month. I've got 8% coming in from the compounding of real estate. I've got 4% coming in from the dividends that I'm bringing in. I've got an extra 12% a year coming in from the extra cashflow generation that we do because it's an ETF. Why would I ever want the hassle of managing a physical property?
Dustin
Immediately, when I hear this, this sounds amazing and awesome. I immediately think, "Am I qualified to do this?" Do you need to be accredited for this? Do you need to show up with $100,000 in order to get into one of these? What are the qualifications for one to get into this?
Minesh
I go through my favorite ETFR free training anyway. The symbol for that is VNQ. If you have to go and had a look at that, you can get into that with one stock purchase with $80. If you want to take it to the next level and do what we do, we recommend people start with at least $25,000. We only work with 155 clients a year. At some point, people have to go do this by themselves. That's why on the free training, I give away the ETFs.
Dustin
I want to get this into our conversation here. You're also a gold and silver guy. How does that fit into what you call the perfect portfolio?
Minesh
I started off in the public world as a real estate guy. We were investing in stocks and we had a business teaching people about stock market investing. I took a break for a year. I came back and dug in online into the gold and silver guy. Every one of these steps that I've taken, I've turned into that guy, the real estate guy, the stock market guy and the gold guy. In truth, what you need as a proper long-term investor is a diversified portfolio, but not a diversified portfolio from a perspective of I want this company and I want this company. You need a diversified portfolio across sectors. We believe when you look at history and you look at everything that's happened, the asset classes that are the most important to be in is the US stock market, real estate and gold and silver. Once you have that, you have a solid foundation of a portfolio. It's going to protect your money and you're going to have a great life hopefully.
Dustin
Gold and silver generally are not exciting. Your tagline or what you do every day is you make safe investing exciting. Talk about how gold and silver, which is traditionally buy and sit on and have in the portfolio, how does that become exciting? How do you get people excited about this concept?
Minesh
When I talk to people that have $100,000, for example, sitting in gold and silver and they've had it for the few years. Every month on YouTube and on TV has been saying, "The crash is coming.” All they're seeing is the stock market going up and up. They're sitting there on their gold and silver going, "What is going on here? I wish I hadn't listened to any of these idiots." The way I like to excite them and say, "Imagine you were bringing in $12,000 to $26,000 a year of cashflow, no matter what the gold and silver was doing." That gets pretty exciting to most people that are sitting there with their gold and silver investments.
That's what we do. I've always been a cashflow guy. Real estate is my background. The underlying principles that drive me are simple. I believe in something that I've learned and observed in people that continuously grow wealth. I like to call that the wealth triangle principle. It's simple. The first step is buying an asset that you know is going to go up over time. For example, something like that wouldn't include Bitcoin at this point in time. You want to buy an asset that you know is going to go up over time. That could be real estate stocks or gold and silver, for example. The next step is you want to cashflow it to the maximum of its ability in any way that you can.
The final step is you compound that. You're taking that cashflow and you buy more of that underlying asset that's going to go up over time. You get that going and there's no way you're not going to make money over time. For me, the pursuit of making safe investing exciting came from watching people approach risky investing in such an exciting way until their leg got blown off in 2008. I thought, "What if we can make safe investing exciting?" Naturally being the ambitious person that I am, I picked the most boring investment to try and do that, which is gold and silver. The truth is, gold and silver are probably the most boring investments on earth because you need them in your portfolio, but there's nothing to do until that moment comes along and hopefully you sell.
Everyone talks about a 38-year money cycle. That's true but the word that they keep forgetting to put in them is average. There's an average 38-year money cycle. Everyone that's talking about gold and silver and you need so much physical, gold and silver are screwed. You're sitting there with no returns on your assets, your inflation is killing you on a yearly basis because you're not keeping up with it until one day hopefully this gold and silver go up. Whereas the way I like to do it is I want to be ready for that, but I want income coming in now, whether it's 12%, whether it's 26%, it doesn't matter to me.
Dustin
What is your advice around gold and silver in terms of money to bring to the table in terms of placing that first investment in gold and silver?
Minesh
The absolute minimum you need at prices of gold and silver is about $1,400 but generally, the average person of our clients starts off with about $20,000.
Dustin
I'm not holding to return, what's in the realm of possibility for the people that you work with, whether that's education or clients is anywhere from 12% to 26% offered to gold and silver. Where do folks find out more specifically about that if they want to explore and go deeper into the gold and silver conversation with you?
Minesh
We'll give you the three links so they can go straight to the training.
Dustin
It's one thing to pick up this information for yourself. You look at Warren Buffett, he's generally not in the business of education. Some people we don't even know and they're quietly making money. Picking up the knowledge that they've acquired through investments and using it for themselves, maybe their family or maybe they do have a fund that they run. What prompted you to want to educate because that's a different thing. It is a business in itself, but you've got to have some passion or background for it. What prompted you to want to train others in what you know?
Minesh
This is where people will either love me or absolutely hate me, but let's get into it. I had two pivot points in my life as far as the education side goes. The first pivot point was when I was sixteen to eighteen years old when I was negotiating these deals. I saw a friend of mine named Mark Anastasi, who was running a seminar. It's the first time I've ever met the guy. I went to talk to him at the back and I said, "I don't know what you guys do. It doesn't make any sense to me. You're dancing around on stage and people run into the back and give you money. I don't understand this." He said, 'What do you do?" I told him and he said, "You need to be on stage." I said, "Give it a break. I have no interest in doing what you're doing. I have no interest. I'm making almost six figures. I'm sixteen years old. I have no desire." He said, "How about you don't understand what we do right now so why don't you watch my presentation, pay attention to it and we can talk afterward? It's only 90 minutes long." I said, "No problem. I'll give you that courtesy."
My dad took me to that seminar. I sat down next to my dad and I'm sitting right on the aisle seat on the seminar, in the middle. He does his thing. He announces in the seminar that he's teaching in a couple of months' time and the price is £1,000 and 150 people or some crazy amount of people run past my shoulders, getting knocked and we're still in a minute. I'm like, "What is going on here?" I've realized that he must've made £200,000 to £300,000 for work that he was going to do in a couple of months' time while I was sitting there negotiating all these property deals, doing all the work before I even could present it to any investors. I turned to him and I said, "I do this crap." My first inkling was I'm not the guy that was living out of my car, I'm not that guy. I was making money with real estate when I first started. I was the guy that thought, "This is a great moneymaking opportunity." Mark was the right guy because he told me that I should teach people what I do, not what they want to hear.
I was lucky to have him there because otherwise, I can see myself going down the path of, "What can I sell? Let me get up on stage and put that up." He was lucky. I've been blessed with the people that have been in my life. It's been amazing. He was there to tell me that and keep me on track with that. The next pivot point, which is when the education part sank into my heart was after 2008 and after seeing people lose money because of leverage. After seeing people lose money and going, "I'm doing what you told me to do." Even though it was completely legal, even though everything was covered, I suddenly have this ownership of this responsibility. I have clients to this day telling me, "It's not your fault if I lose money with leverage," and I'm going, "I don't care what you say, in my heart, it's my fault." I'm not doing that. I'm going to do whatever I can to help as many people as I want to make safe investing exciting for themselves.
Dustin
I definitely appreciate that. We're in line with that here at WealthFit. That's why we exist and why I'm here, I wish I had made smarter investments while I was building my business. I could appreciate your passion and you paying it forward. We covered a lot here and I could see that some people are like, "We've got this wealth triangle principle. We've got gold and silver. We've got property. We've got index funds or ETFs or REITs." Minesh, where does one start? They're brand new. Maybe they have some money, but maybe not at the level to become your client. They're sitting here reading this and they're like, "This all sounds exciting. I like these returns. I should do the safer stuff versus chasing Apple or whatever stock is in the media." Where does one start now?
Minesh
Let's have a look at this. There are multiple ways that you can start. Someone that wants to take what I've said, invest safely and not get involved with their investments. There is one stock that you should look at and the symbol for that stock is VOO. VOO is an index fund that you can invest in proven since 1892 will compound your money. Once you own VOO, you are buying every big US company there is and it's constantly rebalanced for you. It's a Vanguard 500 index fund. It's the 500 biggest companies. It's one of the safest investments for you to look into. If you want a hands-off approach, don't even worry about the real estate. Don't worry about gold and silver. VOO is the one. That's what I tell people that go, "I don't want to be your client because I don't want to do any of the extra work for the extra return."
Go ahead and do that. That is probably the wisest idea that you're going to hear in your lifetime. Most people will ignore it because it sounds too simple. That's why I say go do the research on a Vanguard 500 index fund. It is the best investment for most people to make. Secondly, if you haven't got the money, you need to get the money. I can't help you with that. I don't coach people on that. Dustin will be able to help you with that. Go create the business, go create the value that you can create for other people and go get the money. Finally, if you've got some money and you want to look at what we do, we have three one-hour trainings, one for real estate, one for stocks and one for gold and silver.
In all of them, I give away the ETFs and the main vehicles that we use, our businesses, the coaching side of it. We want to work with people long-term. That's why they pay 70% of our fee once we help them make $150,000 in profit. Once they're a client, they stay a client for life. We've got clients in 2010 that are attending weekly coaching calls now that haven't paid one penny extra since 2010 even though the program has gone up by ten-fold in price. Once you're ready for that, once you've got some money and you want to invest, attend the three one-hour trainings, it's simple. At a minimum, you'll learn the vehicles that we use, understand why we use them and the returns that they can generate. If you want to go do it yourself, you're going to start building a plan like that. If you want to do it with us, you still got to go through those training. Go look at those training. At the end of it, you can consider whether you want to work with us or not or whether we deserve your trust and your time.
Dustin
Is your advice when watching those to pick the one that calls to you the most? Maybe they're only going to pick one. Let's say they're not flush to be able to diversify or maybe that is your advice to start with one, build that trust and rapport with the vehicle itself, with maybe perhaps your company, your education. How do you coach people or advise them on which asset class to dive into first?
Minesh
It's tough because the true answer sounds very self-serving. That is, I'm not the guy that's telling you to do what your spirit calls you to do. I'm telling you, you need these investments in your portfolio when it comes to the max of wealth building. For that, the three investments that I've laid out are the ones that have to be in your portfolio as far as which one you do, attend all the training. They're free. They're one-hour long, and decide which one you think is the biggest opportunity for you. You never should start with all three when it comes to a new company that you're joining. You need to join one. You need to see whether we know what we're talking about, whether our services up to scratch or not, whether you're happy with us or not. You go and decide and join the others. Absolutely don't join all three to start with.
Dustin
I can remember being in seminar land. Everything is so shiny and exciting, but whether you're in seminar land or it's like, "You're trying to pick one, definitely pick one and go deep." I see so many people that try to take on too much and they get nowhere. They spin their wheels.
Minesh
That's how we build our programs. When people look at our programs, they go, "Where's the program?" We say this is a six-hour video training that we have and the majority of everything else is done in time. I believe in time education. I don't believe in having a 1,000-page manual confusing people so they don't do anything right. Most people are in a situation where they attend seminars so often they spend more hours in seminars than hours investing or hours in the game. My job is to keep people in the game rather than sitting on the sidelines watching videos. I'm interested in people that want to take action, that wants to keep it moving and keep pressing on what they want in that life.
Dustin
We've spent a lot of time tactically here in different asset classes and different things. I want to zoom out a little bit. I want to talk about one of the things that you often discuss, which is our concept of money and what it is. Would you explain the philosophy, what money is and how this fits into the bigger picture understanding this?
Minesh
Money to me is a tool. It's like your mind. It's an ability to execute on things that you want and ideas that you want to execute into the world. One of the things that annoy me a lot is protestors, especially protestors about things where they have no solutions. Protesting with a solution is different from protesting without a solution. In London, we had a lot of climate protesters and while I am a big supporter of the climate, I'm also a big supporter of technologies that will fix the climate, not protesting about the climate, not taking a plane and a bus to come to a protest to protest about the climate. I don't believe in that side of the things. Money is a tool. When you have money, you can buy Tesla stock for example, and let Elon Musk hopefully move the world towards electric cars. Money allows you to execute on your dreams and whatever you want to do.
Dustin
In my research, Minesh, I came across the cash matrix. I wanted to ask you about it and why it's important.
Minesh
When you look at money as the paper in front of you, you are playing someone else's game. That cash is someone else's printing, someone else's dictating, someone else is responsible for. Once you look at money as that's it, as that cash in dollars, pounds, euros, yen, whatever you want to look at it, you're now playing that game. In that game, unfortunately, you have no say over when they dilute your money. If overall there's £10 or $10 on the table. You have two of those dollars. You own 20% of that money supply. Now, suddenly I'm the guy that has those $10 and I press a button to print and I suddenly now increased that to $100 on the table. Now you only own 2% of that money supply. Here's the thing, you've got no say on when I press print.
I can devalue your money without you having any say on it. That is the cash matrix and that's what people are playing in most of the time in their life. They're putting money in the bank. They're hoping it's going to be worth the same amount or they think it's going to be worth the same amount. The illusion is without taking any of your $2 away from you, I'm printing more money and reducing the value of your $2 because when you own 20% of that money supply, you are the king.
Dustin
What I hear you saying is you let your cash in a bank and you think you're getting interested off of that. That's what the banks say. However, if you want to combat that, you should be putting it into the big three that you talked about, which is gold and silver, property and the US stock market because over time those things go up. It's not being diluted. Is that correct?
Minesh
Yes, absolutely right. You don't want to be in cash. That doesn't mean you don't want to be tolling cash. You need to burn rates. You need the amount of money your family used to live on and things like that. These are all smart things to think about. Overall, once you have a surplus of that, you need to be in an asset.
Dustin
I want to ask you first before I take you into WealthFit round, which is essentially rapid-fire questions. What are you most excited about these days? What projects are you working on? What's the future look like for you?
Minesh
The most exciting thing for me at this point is having some of my best friends work in the company. I have two best friends in this world. Rakhi is one of them. Rakhi manages our business development. She has the opportunity to create the life that she wants as a result of what we're doing. The other person that I have is Deep. He is my best friend since the early stages of high school. He's our head coach now because he started investing with his own money through the programs that people join without any extra guidance from me, which surprised me as well considering I was right there. He's now become our coach to help people execute those because he went through it. The key difference between our coach and other people's coaches is that our coach invests his own money. You speak to other coaches and the common answer you hear is, "I'm saving up so that I can invest. You don't believe in anything. You're trying to sell me stuff.”
Our coach invests his and his family's money using our strategy. That's exciting to me. What's also exciting is the ability that now I have to travel around the world, be a part of different networks and meet cool people. For me, meeting cool people is the one. There was a point where I thought about shutting this whole thing down because I'd lost that drive because the right people weren't around me. Now I have the right people around me, my friends, as well and that's beyond friends. The person that manages all of our clients, she's spoken to every single client since we first started. She's been around for that long. Having people around me is important and I like the freedom to do what I want to do.
Dustin
Minesh, I want to ask you a couple of rapid-fire questions here. What has been your most worthwhile investment?
Minesh
It's education and the right people. It is getting around the right network, getting around the right people.
Dustin
I want to flip the script on that. What's that investment you don't want to talk about? What's that investment that maybe you placed early on and you took a hit?
Minesh
I lost $100,000 in a few days on trade because I was leveraged.
Dustin
What's that investment you haven't made yet that you want to make? Does it exist?
Minesh
No. There are some vanity investments I want to get into because I'm a fan of watches, Alexa Gause as well. I want to get into some investments in that world. To me investing is very simple and there are consistent principles with investing. In terms of those things, I look at them as more passionate investments rather than actual investments.
Dustin
When life is great and you're making excellent returns, what does that guilty pleasure spend? What do you splurge on when life is great?
Minesh
Travel and cigars, that doesn't mean I smoke five cigars a day. That's bad for you. A personal trainer, I started getting focused on my health, but that's like a mandatory expense for me. It's not like a guilty pleasure or anything like that, but I like smoking great cigars.
Dustin
Do you want to share any hidden gems in terms of travel? Most favorite little spots that you'd like to travel to?
Minesh
I love the beaches in Mauritius. They're unreal. I love the people in Indonesia. The people there are warm and open. As an overall mix of an area that people tend to be afraid of to travel to, I spent a few months in 2018 in Columbia and it was one of the best times I've had. You should definitely go to Columbia.
Dustin
I've been there. It's been quite a few times. I've been there twice. Last question I have for you, Minesh. What have you become better at saying no to in the last few years?
Minesh
If I don't want to do a project, I now say no. If the person persists, I say a word beginning with F and no. I've become very good at knowing what exactly I want and being completely comfortable.
Dustin
I’ve got a follow-up question to that because you said you'd become good. What's your advice for getting clarity? I find like when you have clarity in the world, things come easy. You can say no with conviction. How have you gotten yourself clearer on the things that you want out of life?
Minesh
Do the things that you don't want to do, but do them fast. This whole getting clarity thing is fascinating to me because everyone is in that world right now. I want to get clear before I do anything. How do you know? You've never done it before? I never thought I would enjoy learning to dance the bachata, which is a Latin dance. I never thought I would enjoy it until I went to a class. I went to another class. Now I'm learning the bachata. Any of my friends you speak to, "You're learning how to dance? Firstly, forget the diaper dance that you're learning." You never know this stuff. You’ve got to get out there, do everything but do it fast. Do everything as fast as possible so that you can then figure out what you enjoy versus what you don't enjoy including starting businesses, including making investments, including everything. There are people reading this that have been thinking about investing in real estate for years now. I know that because we both know they exist. If you had gone to a realtor and said, "I want to buy a property within a month."
Dustin
It's been a treat. Thank you big time for sharing your wisdom. Those little parts at the end, I know those are gems there. One thing I will recommend everyone do is to go back and read it again. We covered so many different areas. Minesh, what is the best way for people to keep tabs on what you're up to in the world, see where you're traveling and pick up some valuable education along the way?
Minesh
Perfect Portfolio, they'll come as a website. I don't have social media. I don't believe in that. I'm a weirdo as far as that goes amongst all my friends. I don't believe in that. Unfortunately, I don't share too many photos online or anything like that. Get on the email list, I generally share where I'm at and what I'm doing. If I'm having a coffee with a bunch of clients, we send out an email over whenever I am around the world. I want to say one last thing because people are going to read this and say, "That's great. He did it. That's cool. Dustin is amazing." Beyond everything, the message that I have and the purpose for doing these interviews because like I said, we work with such a small number of clients every single year.
The purpose for me doing these interviews is to share the message that unfortunately, information like this does come from a club. Unfortunately, it's not common knowledge. Unfortunately, it's not taught in schools. Unfortunately, your parents didn't teach you this. None of that should become your identifiable reason or excuse for not doing what you want to do in life. Most people, I believe anyway, want a very simple life. They want freedom. They want security. They want a bright future for their children. They want to retire in style. They want to leave a legacy for their future generations. None of those things are wrong to desire. None of those things are out of the realms of possibility for anyone in the world. Knowledge hasn't had access to it, it doesn't mean you can use that as an excuse not to get the things that you want in life.
You can do this. You've got to find the right information. I don't want to say it's hidden and it's secret and all these other words that people use, but you have to figure it out. You have to get the information and you can do this. It is absolutely possible. We have clients that are ex-traders in New York to single moms in Indonesia doing our own programs. It's absolutely possible. At the end of the day, once you have that, once you have the investments, once you have the structure and the foundation that you're looking for and the strategy that you're looking for, you're not going to need that club anymore. You don't need to worry about that because you've got your own foundation. That's the key thing.
Dustin
Minesh, thank you big time especially for that call to action and getting people off the sidelines and into the lifestyle that they want and into the investments they should be making. I want to thank you again for being on the show.
Minesh
It's my honor. Dustin, thank you.

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